TerraPrime Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Similar to the sexism fail over in the atheists community, the larger problem is not the utterance of racist things or enactment of racist things through simple thoughtlessness or ignorance, which I will classify both the blackface cosmetic and the mocking of Serena Williams incident here as. The larger issue, imo, is the reaction of others when this is pointed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cora Stark Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I don't seen this as racist..... Just rude.But as people I don't think we should be so sensitive about stuff like this.Since we know it wont stop or change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. E Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 And when? Given that in a certain context, a phrase might be racist? Which arguably makes you racist, or 'ignorant' (i.e. you unrepentantly still aren't omniscient).You own it.Again, this is the only issue I would call myself "libertarian" on. Everything else from healthcare to welfare to taxation to criminal law to gun control I'm all about sacrificing for the good of others. But if you are going to say something racist or ignorant (truly racist or ignorant), then say it, and don't worry about it. You're going to do be lambasted for it, certainly, but as we have just established: who cares what those people think? They don't matter.Again and again, the only thing I'm this way on is free speech; but free speech is free speech. Unlike other things in this world, there is no middle ground. Either we are free to say what we want, or we are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straits Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I don't seen this as racist..... Just rude.But as people I don't think we should be so sensitive about stuff like this.Since we know it wont stop or change.But do you mean that common insults won't stop or change (and they never will), or that insults that lean towards discrimination won't stop?I hope that it's a joke within a group familiar with each other. Then it's as harmless as Novak's 'imitations'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Yeah Galactus, there is an Asian driver stereotype, which is ironic because I'd sure as shit crash within minutes driving in the high difficulty of many of the SE Asia cities, yet they manage fine.Tesla I really object to your logic on diversity, living and working in inner city Sydney I'm exposed to constant racial and cultural diversity. Living and working in northern Idaho I saw 10-20 people of color (including Latinos, I'm not sure if POC usually encompass them or not) in a year.Australia has plenty of racism issues nonetheless, although most of them come from more regional areas with less diversity. We don't have the US history of racism against black people other than Aboriginals however, so most of my knowledge on that specific segment of racism comes from this board. From that I think this is much too specific about the individual, and being curvy doesn't have the same level of awareness about it being a black stereotype for me to think this is racist. I accept that to some of you that stereotype exists but I don't think it's at the same level of awareness as a lot of other ones do, and I feel its pretty clear there was no racist intent. Seems a bit of an assholish way to do the teasing but that depends on their relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 America? Lets talk about America. We have about 35 million african americans and 35 million hispanics and 30 million assorted ethnicities living in close proximity to the rest of the Caucasian population. This means that everyone in the US is exposed to the kinds of interracial interactions in numbers that very few other nations can match. Not Canada, not the UK, but the US. So maybe folks from other countries can at least acknowledge that many people in America have a more nuanced take on racial issues (and yes, also a more sensitive radar).This has nothing to do with 'liberal guilt' or the 'race card', the latter of which is shorthand for nothing.With any amount of segregation going on those numbers don't account for anything, since it will be day-to-day contacts that are important.*European countries can be horribly nasty, but a lot of that seems to be cultural discrimination (based on forcing people into adopting to the local dominant culture) rather than racial discrimination per se. Yes it is as bad, perhaps even worse, because it hits in what a person is. And as a result racist ridicule is probably more likely to be connected to the way a person behaves, dresses, speaks, rather than just the way they look.So some sensitivities in the USA will not be as strong elsewhere, simply because the markers are not the point of focus elsewhere.ETA: * and for example http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/explorer seems to indicate that it can be a huge factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Stone Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 So how many people watched that and thought:"Look at her imitating a black person. She must be making fun of Serena." Because that would strike me as racist.Instead of:"She's got boobs like Serena's and a butt like Serena's, she must be doing a Serena"Which is sort of the opposite of racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straits Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 snipAnd kalbear's quote in your sig seems appropriate for the situation. Just because you're offended, doesn't mean it's offensive. Nor does it make the offended party right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukelavee Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 It's a multi-purpose sig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Having read this and similar threads, I am becoming convinced that people regard things as racist, when it is to their advantage to do so. So far, the only thing I see as unfair is that it is unlikely that Serena Williams has any practical way to imitate a skinny white chick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
str8 outta Old Town Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Having read this and similar threads, I am becoming convinced that people regard things as racist, when it is to their advantage to do so. So far, the only thing I see as unfair is that it is unlikely that Serena Williams has any practical way to imitate a skinny white chick.Dance badly and pretend to make herself throw up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Pie Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Similar to the sexism fail over in the atheists community, the larger problem is not the utterance of racist things or enactment of racist things through simple thoughtlessness or ignorance, which I will classify both the blackface cosmetic and the mocking of Serena Williams incident here as. The larger issue, imo, is the reaction of others when this is pointed out.What's the sexism fail in the atheists community? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straits Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Dance badly and pretend to make herself throw up?Well, then you are guilty of -isms relating to people who are weight-challenged. And cursed with a lack of groove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 What's the sexism fail in the atheists community?See the women in geek culture threads, the incident is discussed in detail therein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clueless Northman Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The fact of the matter is this: I am not black. I grew up in Mississippi, which is still extremely segregated, even in 2012. And for the record, most places are the same way. I understand there are enlightened pockets of equality in places across the US, but by and large, we are still dealing with an extreme racially prejudiced environment. I think the reaction to Obama's reelection shows that.I think this is an extremely valuable conversation if we can set our sensitivities aside and not get defensive. I know it's hard, but we are never going to get anywhere as a country if we can't talk about this stuff honestly. Actually, you're perftectly right about that.The trouble is, this is an internal American issue. Other countries didn't have millions of black slaves in 2nd half of 19th century, didn't tear themselves apart with half a million deaths because some people wanted to keep slavery on the menu, then went on with massive segregation well into 20th century; as others said, other countries don't have the same past with horrible treatment of Black people - mostly, I think, because they just didn't have a sizable Black minority, they sold Africans into slavery in centuries past but didn't keep them in vast numbers in the metropolis.Considering the segregation and all the racist crap that went on to keep the Black minority down, it's no wonder people are sensitive over these issues in the USA. Specially since all is not well and rosy even nowadays.But Americans need to deal with the most blatant racial problems in America first, not waste time looking at everything silly foreigners with a quite different history of race relationship (and usually with only a very recent racial cohabitation history) will do, because things can't be considered the same way - besides, having some European blokes changing their behaviour towards other races won't help in any way to improve the lot of the US Black community, it'll just be a waste your time instead of targetting what can really be usefully done.Now, if people want to look for awfully racist stuff, it isn't hard. Go to some football game in Europe and see the moronic fans making monkey noises or throwing bananas to the few Black players; this kind of repulsive shit occurs fairly often, despite clubs and organisations denials. That's racism, racist stereotyping, racist slur.See the women in geek culture threads, the incident is discussed in detail therein.Well, that's obviously an issue not with atheism as such but with part of the atheist community, namely the visible and organised community basically - because, well, most atheists are just atheist and don't bother to go to Atheists' Convention or to spam atheist message boards. Sad but not really surprising, since there's a sizable portion of the male half of the planet that's quite sexist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
str8 outta Old Town Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Well, then you are guilty of -isms relating to people who are weight-challenged. And cursed with a lack of groove.I'm actually allowed to make that joke, because I too am a member of the Grooveless community. So check your priviledges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 weight-challenged.Sorry, but political correctness is not a language I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraPrime Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 So how many people watched that and thought:"Look at her imitating a black person. She must be making fun of Serena." Because that would strike me as racist.Instead of:"She's got boobs like Serena's and a butt like Serena's, she must be doing a Serena"Which is sort of the opposite of racism.Except the point is that the format of the mockery is a recycling of previous racist tropes. Sometimes, it can be both a floor wax AND a dessert topping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShowOverBooks Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Well, then you are guilty of -isms relating to people who are weight-challenged. And cursed with a lack of groove."WEIGHT-CHALLENGED"? Tell me you're not serious.More like gravity-challenged, and yes, I AM FAT. Not metabolically-impaired. FAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straits Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 "WEIGHT-CHALLENGED"? Tell me you're not serious.More like gravity-challenged, and yes, I AM FAT. Not metabolically-impaired. FAT.Big-boned. Not your fault. Our Saviour your Lord God made us this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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