Azor Ahai-doesnt exist.

[Corvo Attano]

AA is a concept a belief AA is Batman.

I like you're thinking. - "If you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, you become something else entirely. A legend, a story..."

I think AAR isn't tied to a specific person, but rather a number of people, any one of whom could choose to pick up the mantle of Azor Ahai (Yeah, I got that idea from HP, where the prophecy could have referred to Harry or Neville, but Harry was the one who choose to fulfil it).

[Morienthar]

I like you're thinking. - "If you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, you become something else entirely. A legend, a story..."

I think AAR isn't tied to a specific person, but rather a number of people, any one of whom could choose to pick up the mantle of Azor Ahai (Yeah, I got that idea from HP, where the prophecy could have referred to Harry or Neville, but Harry was the one who choose to fulfil it).

Tom chose Harry,But that's a completely different thing.

I think AA was never just one guy,But more of a series of people who led the fight against the Others during the Long Night.

Lightbringer was his Bat Hood.

[GoldenFleece]

I agree that the idea of Azor Ahai and "Azor Ahai Reborn" seem to be a big troll of Christianity; but that doesn't mean we won't have a 'prophesied hero' in he series.

I for one could easily see GRRM using the standard fantasy "prophesied hero" as a red herring - it is what he does best. Use standard fantasy clichés and subvert them. I really do not think their is a single hero to rescue Westeros in this series at all and the fact that a lot of people on these forums believe there is means George's plan has worked perfectly I believe.

[Vegeta_Greyjoy]

I for one could easily see GRRM using the standard fantasy "prophesied hero" as a red herring - it is what he does best. Use standard fantasy clichés and subvert them. I really do not think their is a single hero to rescue Westeros in this series at all and the fact that a lot of people on these forums believe there is means George's plan has worked perfectly I believe.

I've speculated that Thoros is actually Azor Ahai and his role is to bring the BWB to the wall to serve as the new Night's Watch, or Lightbringer, if you will.

[Xanrn]

Well he ain't doing a good job on that, considering the BWB has disintergrated thanks to Beric dying and Catelyns rampage.

See the problem as I see it lies with the Targaryens.

The Prince who was Promised is a First Men prophecy, the AAR is a Eastern prophecy.

AA never was in Westeros, he never fought the "Others" in Westeros

Targaryens bought it over, and then stamped it on Westeros prophecy because being a bunch of egomaniacs only they could be "Princes"

Then comes Rhaeger, aka Sheldon Targaryen thinks he is PWWP/AA, then marries a Princess of Dorne to make Aegon who he thinks is it, oh no wrong for a 2nd time. Then obivious decides a Song of Ice and Fire bit is the major part so Lyanna.

Aemon was just as bad, he fixates on Stannis's Targaryen blood and then assumes it Dany because she has Dragons. Ignoring the fact she has as much Ice as the Saharra Desert.

Anyway to quote Maester what's his face, "Prophecies are as fickle as Whores"

Too bring a long story short.

Prophecy will be fufilled by whoever fufills it. Like the Harry Potter one, but without the bad guy deciding (or maybe the Others will decide by attacking *someone*)

Which will be Bran.

Catelyn = Kissed by Fire because she has auburn hair.

Smoke and Salt = Winterfell burning and Ironmen and Tears.

I am about 50/50 on Gods and Prophecy.

On one hand you have the dead Direwolf and its 6 cubs on the other hand Mel and her bullshit leech curse on the 3 Kings. Balon already had a Faceless man coming for him, Robb had already broken his vow to the Freys.

[Carranca]

I like this.

Even Davos Seaworth was born amidst salt and smoke after the Blackwater.

There is a possibility, we're going to see a lot of characters "reborn", sacrificing theirs respectives "Nissa Nissa", who knows...

I always expect Martin to "subvert the clichés" and like to see how the prophecies work out.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

I for one could easily see GRRM using the standard fantasy "prophesied hero" as a red herring - it is what he does best. Use standard fantasy clichés and subvert them. I really do not think their is a single hero to rescue Westeros in this series at all and the fact that a lot of people on these forums believe there is means George's plan has worked perfectly I believe.

I also doubt that there will be one hero in the story, since more than one person will play a part in saving Westeros. That still doesn't mean that there isn't a "prophesied hero" in the story, because having other people greatly assist this person will still be a change to the standard fantasy cliche. GRRM doesn't need to abandon traditional fantasy completely in order to do something different.

I believe that the PTWP. AAR, and any other mention of a "prophesied hero" all refer to one person in the series. I believe that person will be our "hero", but their story will not be the traditional "hero saves the day and lives happily ever after" story.

[Lord Ravenstark]

A Song of Ice and Fire (commonly abbreviated as ASoIaF) is an ongoing a series of epic fantasy novels by American novelist and screenwriter George R. R. Martin.

High fantasy, it's genre friendly to an Azor Ahai reborn. The problem is that are so many people trying to give messianic traits to their favorites. Prophecies can be stretched to fit in everyone you think, in our world and in asoiaf-world.

If there were a Azor Ahai and he saved the world from creatures that tried to bring a glacial age to the world is accetable to understand that the legend was spread through the world, as a global telephone game.

[Aerys Blackfyre]

I do not believe in prophecies fulfillment in ASOIAF

no PTWP, no AA

[Kahl Trollo]

If there is an AAR, I'm not entirely it's a 'good thing' - and certainly not something to cheer your favorite characters on towards. The epic hero that saves the world and gets the girl and the kingdom at the end is the providence of fairy tales, adopted by modern fantasy to please the reader. In a series or books that seems more gritty and realistic, that tends to take it's cues more from history and old myth the hero-that-gets-the-girl seems out of place.

When you look to many of our own ancient myths - the heroic death is as big a part of their story as their birth or creation. Beowulf, Arthur, The Gods of Valhalla, Hector and Achilles - all dead - the list goes on and on. In many cases this death is cyclic, the end of one era so a new can one can begin - or a new hero can emerge.

In Myths involving salvation, it oft doesn't bode well for the hero either. We can look to world religions for this one, as Christianity is mentioned in this thread, we can run with that - For the salvation of man, the ushering in of a new covenant and all that good stuff, the price the 'King of Kings' paid was to be tortured and crucified. Possibly one of the cruelest deaths the Romans had to offer.

If there is an AA reborn, a Prince That Was Promised, a Last Hero - I really don't think they're going to be around to enjoy whatever fruits their labors bear.

As tho who it may be? *shrug* there are so many you could read into it on a literal or metaphorical level at this point (especially if you use the old standby 'and then something happens in the next book') that it may well be a happenstance that has someone dropping in the last piece of the prophecy puzzle and having the unwashed masses look up to him/her, and having their fate sealed by the faith of others. I'll have to wait and see who draws what I consider to be the short straw on that.

[Lord Ravenstark]

If there is an AAR, I'm not entirely it's a 'good thing' - and certainly not something to cheer your favorite characters on towards. The epic hero that saves the world and gets the girl and the kingdom at the end is the providence of fairy tales, adopted by modern fantasy to please the reader. In a series or books that seems more gritty and realistic, that tends to take it's cues more from history and old myth the hero-that-gets-the-girl seems out of place.

When you look to many of our own ancient myths - the heroic death is as big a part of their story as their birth or creation. Beowulf, Arthur, The Gods of Valhalla, Hector and Achilles - all dead - the list goes on and on. In many cases this death is cyclic, the end of one era so a new can one can begin - or a new hero can emerge.

In Myths involving salvation, it oft doesn't bode well for the hero either. We can look to world religions for this one, as Christianity is mentioned in this thread, we can run with that - For the salvation of man, the ushering in of a new covenant and all that good stuff, the price the 'King of Kings' paid was to be tortured and crucified. Possibly one of the cruelest deaths the Romans had to offer.

If there is an AA reborn, a Prince That Was Promised, a Last Hero - I really don't think they're going to be around to enjoy whatever fruits their labors bear.

As tho who it may be? *shrug* there are so many you could read into it on a literal or metaphorical level at this point (especially if you use the old standby 'and then something happens in the next book') that it may well be a happenstance that has someone dropping in the last piece of the prophecy puzzle and having the unwashed masses look up to him/her, and having their fate sealed by the faith of others. I'll have to wait and see who draws what I consider to be the short straw on that.

The Azor Ahai don't need to be the guy who will be crowned and get the girl to live happily ever after.

[Pikachu101]

I am hoping there wont be an AA, I'd prefer if we didnt have that kind of mystified heroes in the story..

Agree :D there are so many man made myths and folklore used by people to explain what they don't understand in the real world, so why won't Westeros be any different?

Azor Ahai/Prince that was Promised is just a myth that only little girls like Sansa should take seriously

[The Bastard of Summer]

You are correct Azor Ahai does not exist. He/she died after the first long night. However he/she shall be "reborn" to help defend the realm against the threat of the upcoming long night and be known as Azor Ahai-Reborn or AAR. I don't think AAR is an actual name it is a title.

[Albertine]

My theory is that Oathkeeper is Lightbringer (and the person who wields it will be Azor Ahai), but that Dany is the Prince that was Promised.

Oathkeeper really fits all the criteria. It was forged from Ned Stark's Ice, after Ice was used to kill Ned Stark. And if Brienne ends up killing Jaime, then Lightbringer will have been doubly christened--first turned against its owner, then used by the wielder to kill the person who she loves the most (among the living).

[Pikachu101]

You are correct Azor Ahai does not exist. He/she died after the first long night. However he/she shall be reborn to help defend the realm against the threat of the upcoming long night and be known as Azor Ahai-Reborn or AAR. I don't think AAR is an actual name it is a title.

Am I the only one who would cringe and then burn the books if George dares do something like that?

I think I'll die a little if he then tops it off with Jon Snow being Azor Ahai

[three-eyed monkey]

I think there is a natural cycle on planetos, just like real-world. Day follows night, spring follows winter, etc., except on planetos there comes a Long Night every few millenia, when the Others come. As we have encountered the Others in the story then I think we can all agree that they do exist and it appears very likely that they will come again soon. So it seems that there is some grain of truth in Old Nan's tales about the Long Night and Others.

But bedtime tales are not the only cultural memory of these events. The Long Night is remembered in many ways, as we might expect of such an apocalyptic event. These memories take many forms, across many cultures, from Old Nan's tales to prophecies from Asshai to talk about bleeding stars and red comets. Even religons like R'hllorism are just an allegorical interpretation of this eternal battle between light and darkness, just like many of the religions of real-world. Every culture has its hero related to these events, Azor Ahai, tPtwP, the Last hero, and if the Others are real and came before then I think it is reasonable to think that these heroes have some historical basis too. Whether they are the same person or not, and how accurate the individual tales are, I don't think we can know.

The point is that the Long Night came before, and it will come again, as sure as night follows day, and when the Others come hunting, men will band together and make a stand, just like they did last time, and from the last ranks of men a hero/heroes will rise, as sure as spring follows winter, and lead the remenants of mankind through the darkest hour to dawn. This is the song of ice and fire. To some degree it is easy to be prophetic about it, as easy as it is to predict the change of seasons, and if your wrong there will be no one left to say "told you so" anyway. A win/win situation for prophets really.

That said, I think as a literary device the prophecies are important to add a bit of mystery, to use for foreshadowing, and to create talking points, so I'm glad they're in the books.

[Lord Joker Of FunLand]

This thread jives with me :cool4: No AA suits me to the ground.

This.

I don't want a magical hero to pop up and save the world.

[The Bastard of Summer]

Am I the only one who would cringe and then burn the books if George dares do something like that?

I think I'll die a little if he then tops it off with Jon Snow being Azor Ahai

Mayhaps, AAR, the title will be the person who ends the long night this go round. Again I believe it to be a title not a persons name

I am NOT against Jon being AAR. In fact I believe he is, but I'm guessing you knew that I think that he is.

[The Idiots Lantern]

I don't want a magical hero to pop up and save the world.

Me neither. I'm much happier with everyone working together to save the world. Humanity uniting to fend off death itself sounds like a good time to me.

I do think there is clearly SOMETHING going on with the AA legends, the Firey God and the magic clearly tied up in both. But it's probably not what people think it is going to turn out to be.

[TalalOfDorne]

It is very likely that AA, PTWP, and all the others probably dont exist.