jons nissa Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Honestly, neither one should have married, period. Robert is an immature frat-boy and Cersei is an embittered, egoistic, selfish noblewoman.It's like the universe picked the two people most likely to despise each other and paired them up.and yet, that was never an option. and in the westeros universe, no one cared whether they would like each other or not. they were the most logical match: a newly crowned king and the daughter of the wealthiest noble family in the kingdom. i doubt anyone would have ever expected things to get as dysfunctional as it did!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Tippy Wolfsbane Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 It can be a fair discussion. This is the same forum where PtP Sansa threads originated, no? Plenty of people hate Sansa for whatever reason. It's just that nobody makes enough of an effort with Cersei and Robert. Whereas amazing essays are derived from the analysis of Sansa.I doubt it could ever be fair in terms of Robert and Cersei. Robert is widely hated, but unlike Sansa he doesn't have POV chapters to help argue his case.Cersei on the other hand has POV chapters that have made her look a lot more sympathetic than Robert; where she paints Robert as a horrible person. Robert doesn't really have a defense since we cannot read his inner monologue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I doubt it could ever be fair in term of Robert and Cersei. Robert is widely hated, but unlike Sansa he doesn't have POV chapters to help argue his case.Cersei on the other hand has POV chapters that have made her look a lot more sympathetic than Robert; where she paints Robert as a horrible person. Robert doesn't really have a defense since we cannot read his inner monologue.Even if we could, i doubt Roberts inner monoluges would be very enjoyable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straits Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Even if we could, i doubt Roberts inner monoluges would be very enjoyable...His inner monologue is mainly that one video I keep linking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Even if we could, i doubt Roberts inner monoluges would be very enjoyable...Yea it would just be sex and alcohol... hey wait that actually sounds pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Africanus Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I think butterbumps! already said it but why do people place so much emphasis on Cercei's marriage making her what she is what we see in the ASOFAI timeline? Her childhood memories such as her disgust with Tyrion and physically abusing him as a babe have nothing to do with ol' Bob, as is her dubious role in her childhood friend's demise. Or her relationship with Jamie. All of which Bob was nowhere near.Cercei's personality was pretty much formed before Bob, and her marriage with him made her embittered, and the subsequent loss of Joff made her paranoid. But she was probably always a bit sadistic and nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 and yet, that was never an option. and in the westeros universe, no one cared whether they would like each other or not. they were the most logical match: a newly crowned king and the daughter of the wealthiest noble family in the kingdom. i doubt anyone would have ever expected things to get as dysfunctional as it did!!!!And thus we see how a rigid, patriarchal social structure based on divine rights/blood rights stifles both men and women, breeds despair, destruction and general shittiness./ aesop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 His inner monologue is mainly that one video I keep linking: Genius! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 And thus we see how a rigid, patriarchal social structure based on divine rights/blood rights stifles both men and women, breeds despair, destruction and general shittiness./ aesop.Did you just summeraize about 50% of the series? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Éadaoin Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 His inner monologue is mainly that one video I keep linking: Now I know the real reason why Bob didn't have a POV - it would be a whole lot of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Tippy Wolfsbane Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 i am not necessarily in the middle ground. i have definite opinions on most of the major characters. but that doesn't mean i'm blind to their flaws and apologize for everything they do wrong! nor does it mean that i condemn those i don't like. in fact, i've been persuaded to rethink some of my opinions of characters (kittykatknits can claim credit for me liking cat than i used to) but when people begin with "you're reading it wrong. or grrm doesn't understand. or on a closer read you'll see xxx really had a good reason to" well, then you've lost me.I feel you. My point is usually that a character always has a logical reason behind their actions, whether the reason is 'good' is always a matter of opinion. That's why I love this series. GRRM writes his characters beautifully. For example, I have ALWAYS loved Catelyn. She has always rocked as a mom/wife, IMO; and her story touched me so deeply. but...I have always despised her treatment of Jon, although she had logical reasoning behind her actions. . Stannis is not the cure for everything you know...Are you sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 .Are you sure?Yep, unless Stannis can magically cure Cancer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straits Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 And thus we see how a rigid, patriarchal social structure based on divine rights/blood rights stifles both men and women, breeds despair, destruction and general shittiness./ aesop.We knew this when we started reading the series. GRRM just shows it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Yep, unless Stannis can magically cure Cancer...Maybe he can? I mean hes never tried before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Are you sure?*checks books* Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straits Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Now I know the real reason why Bob didn't have a POV - it would be a whole lot of this.N' fucks. N' fucks. Jamie Lannister |n' fucks| the mighty Tywin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Maybe he can? I mean hes never tried before...First he would require the Cancer patient to bend the knee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 N' fucks. N' fucks. Jamie Lannister |n' fucks| the mighty Tywin.That makes my head spin.First he would require the Cancer patient to bend the knee...Obviously :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Tippy Wolfsbane Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Even if we could, i doubt Roberts inner monoluges would be very enjoyable...I disagree, I would have loved Robert POV's! I thought I would dislike Cersei and Jaime POV's until they arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jons nissa Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I feel you. My point is usually that a character always has a logical reason behind their actions, whether the reason is 'good' is always a matter of opinion. That's why I love this series. GRRM writes his characters beautifully.i agree, grrm writes his characters well. but he does want us to react to their actions, regardless of their own reasoning of why, don't you think?for example, why does grrm create such a horrific wedding night for cersei if not to give some plausible reason for her actions. so do we say, well, that night changes everything or do we say well, that night was bad but....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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