E-Ro Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 No king povs, except maybe jon?(I hope we dont lose his pov as that would suck) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I disagree, I would have loved Robert POV's!I guess we would've gotten even more food porn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 We knew this when we started reading the series. GRRM just shows it well.That's just it though-when you have such a society, it is inevitable that people will struggle, thus threatening the very foundations.Take Arya as a microcosm: if she were allowed to train with her brothers, she wouldn't have felt so inferior, nor would she have needed to slip away with Mycsh, the Trident incident would not have happened and Lady'd be alive.Or Tyrion: if he had not been mocked/called a monster all his life, do you think he'd still have tried to prove himself one?That is the tragedy of these characters: as long as the social constraints remain the same, they will commit the same acts on each iteration.ETA This post is stupid because my meds are woinking me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Tippy Wolfsbane Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Maybe he can? I mean hes never tried before...Exactly! *checks books* Yup.Blasphemy. :fencing:First he would require the Cancer patient to bend the knee...Of course, that is only fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 ETA This post is stupid because my meds are woinking me.Woinking you? That sounds awfully dirty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straits Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 That's just it though-when you have such a society, it is inevitable that people will struggle, thus threatening the very foundations.Take Arya as a microcosm: if she were allowed to train with her brothers, she wouldn't have felt so inferior, nor would she have needed to slip away with Mycsh, the Trident incident would not have happened and Lady'd be alive.Or Tyrion: if he had not been mocked/called a monster all his life, do you think he'd still have tried to prove himself one?That is the tragedy of these characters: as long as the social constraints remain the same, they will commit the same acts on each iteration.ETA This post is stupid because my meds are woinking me.Arya's a good example of partial effects. I blame Ned for Lady's death in retrospect. Grow a pair and tell the royal couple to royally piss off. He's the warden of aSoIaF-Russia, he has leverage.Cersei's attitude is a good example of an extreme reaction to the patriarchy.Tyrion would have been in a bad way in most possible societies, given Tywin as father :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Woinking you? That sounds awfully dirty...It's Winters Knight, you kind of expect her to be dirty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Tippy Wolfsbane Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 i agree, grrm writes his characters well. but he does want us to react to their actions, regardless of their own reasoning of why, don't you think?Of course. This issue arises when we automatically condemn these characters as awful/immoral human beings without involving their reasoning in the decision. for example, why does grrm create such a horrific wedding night for cersei if not to give some plausible reason for her actions. so do we say, well, that night changes everything or do we say well, that night was bad but.......I agree, and this is partially why I do not condemn Cersei. I think we are meant to ask ourselves...does this excuse her actions? Does this make Robert a bad guy? Why does Robert do this? Why does Cersei react the way she does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Woinking you? That sounds awfully dirty...Gods these stupid anti-amoebics..Befuddling me, else I'd totally show you how awfully dirty I can be-well show you again that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I agree, and this is partially why I do not condemn Cersei. I think we are meant to ask ourselves...does this excuse her actions? Does this make Robert a bad guy? Why does Robert do this? Why does Cersei react the way she does?Does this excuse her actions? No of course not, but it explains them. Just as gravity doesn't excuse a hammer falling on your toe, but it explains it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jons nissa Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 That's just it though-when you have such a society, it is inevitable that people will struggle, thus threatening the very foundations.Take Arya as a microcosm: if she were allowed to train with her brothers, she wouldn't have felt so inferior, nor would she have needed to slip away with Mycsh, the Trident incident would not have happened and Lady'd be alive.Or Tyrion: if he had not been mocked/called a monster all his life, do you think he'd still have tried to prove himself one?That is the tragedy of these characters: as long as the social constraints remain the same, they will commit the same acts on each iteration.but truth is we still have these restrictions on us. sure arya might be allowed even encouraged to "play" with her brothers but that would only go so far. at this point, while women serve in the military, they are not allowed to fight. (in america) no active duty for the ladies. and they are not allowed to join any special ops.tyrion would have fewer problems, but i can't say his dwarfism wouldn't be an issue. we are just now learning how to truly treat those with disabilities fairly.but then agian, you can always say, we are still living in a patriarchial society :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Tippy Wolfsbane Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Does this excuse her actions? No of course not, but it explains them. Just as gravity doesn't excuse a hammer falling on your toe, but it explains it.I agree, that's my point.My issue is when people ignore this reasoning as baseless because they disagree with the action itself.ETA:For example, I don't care about gravity causing the hammer to fall, it was wrong for the hammer to hit my toe. The hammer cannot use gravity as an explanation for why it hit my toe...it was wrong, wrong, WRONG! :angry2: I am faced with these arguments often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straits Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 but then agian, you can always say, we are still living in a patriarchial society :devil:I think there will be room for argument that we live in a patriarchy until men and women become perfectly androgynous and of equal physical capability all-round.Which is disgusting, imagine a world with no more beards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jons nissa Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I think there will be room for argument that we live in a patriarchy until men and women become perfectly androgynous and of equal physical capability all-round.Which is disgusting, imagine a world with no more beards.this would be good. me no likey beards.let me guess: you have a beard, right? :blushing:as to the frist part, i don't think we will need to be androgynous for the two genders to finally be equal. we are getting closer and closer every day. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jons nissa Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I agree, that's my point.My issue is when people ignore this reasoning as baseless because they disagree with the action itself.ETA:For example, I don't care about gravity causing the hammer to fall, it was wrong for the hammer to hit my toe. The hammer cannot use gravity as an explanation for why it hit my toe...it was wrong, wrong, WRONG! :angry2: I am faced with these arguments often.OF COURSE THAT HAMMER IS WRONG. it is so mysonginistic of that hammer to hit your toe like that. gravity is really no excuse for such behavior. BAD HAMMER! :whip: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Tippy Wolfsbane Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 OF COURSE THAT HAMMER IS WRONG. it is so mysonginistic of that hammer to hit your toe like that. gravity is really no excuse for such behavior. BAD HAMMER! :whip:And for people to have the audacity to say that the hammer was somehow justified in hitting my toe is ridiculous. It could have fought against gravity. :smug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straits Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 this would be good. me no likey beards.let me guess: you have a beard, right? :blushing:as to the frist part, i don't think we will need to be androgynous for the two genders to finally be equal. we are getting closer and closer every day. :DI shave clean! I like theoretical beards, leave me be :hat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jons nissa Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 And for people to have the audacity to say that the hammer was somehow justified in hitting my toe is ridiculous. It could have fought against gravity. :smug:others have been able to deal with the effects of gravity. why should the hammer get a pass?please stop apologizing for it's behavior. it's flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Yep, unless Stannis can magically cure Cancer...Maybe he can? I mean hes never tried before...First he would require the Cancer patient to bend the knee...Guys I am very disappointed in you all.The answer was clearly: The Cancer will bend the knee or be destroyed.*disappointed look* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Guys I am very disappointed in you all.The answer was clearly: The Cancer will bend the knee or be destroyed.*disappointed look*But Cancer dosn't have knees to bend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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