Grip Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 It was most likely a combination of many factors such as mutual attraction and the natural close relationship between a knight and his squire (escalating) etc. I mean a squire is supposed to stay close to his knights side at all times, serving him and I guess sometimes being confided in (especially considering that Loras and Renly were both young and close in age). Its not strange then that these kinds of relationships can develop into attraction etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerolunar Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Well, only place in the books i noticed it, were in Storm... Sansa and Loras walking past the courtyard, talking about the kings.. I think so :uhoh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambi76 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Those illuminations.....illuminating.Oh yeah, Renly's porn stash probably also played a role, considering they were teenage boys and Loras is still singing its praise. :read: :leer:also:Stannis, Jaime and Garlan all hint at the relationship too...... and Oberyn and Gregor and Varys and Cersei and ... yeah, I would say that wasn't much of a secret at all.Had to laugh at the two Lannister guards on the show too.Only Sansa, Ned, Catelyn and Brienne seem to be oblivious to it (stupid honorable people, yo). And Tyrion because "not relevant to his interests" if you know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost of Winter Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Renly gazed into Loras' eyes, his own blue radiating. He took a sweet long breath and whispered, "come into my castle" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waaimasjien Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 You know, I've always wondered about how gay stuff must have worked in periods when being gay wasn't accepted at all. How do you develop a gaydar if you don't really have a point of reference? Making a move must also be scary as hell since your gut feeling about someone might be wrong and you may be outed as a "pervert". But that's kind of off-topic here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogLover Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 You know, I've always wondered about how gay stuff must have worked in periods when being gay wasn't accepted at all. How do you develop a gaydar if you don't really have a point of reference? Making a move must also be scary as hell since your gut feeling about someone might be wrong and you may be outed as a "pervert". But that's kind of off-topic here.Is there anything that indicates homosexuality wasn't accepted anywhere in the series? Everyone who recognizes the relationship between Renly and Loras that we know of doesn't seem shocked by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Toad Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 You know, I've always wondered about how gay stuff must have worked in periods when being gay wasn't accepted at all. How do you develop a gaydar if you don't really have a point of reference? Making a move must also be scary as hell since your gut feeling about someone might be wrong and you may be outed as a "pervert". But that's kind of off-topic here.Abrahamic religions are the ones that traditionally have such strict rules concerning homosexuality. "Gaydar" is important in these types of societies. Westeros doesn't have this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of Judah Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I just had to read the comments on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Fell Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 It was most likely a combination of many factors such as mutual attraction and the natural close relationship between a knight and his squire (escalating) etc. I mean a squire is supposed to stay close to his knights side at all times, serving him and I guess sometimes being confided in (especially considering that Loras and Renly were both young and close in age). Its not strange then that these kinds of relationships can develop into attraction etc.when spartan boys went threw ugogie it wasnt considered wrong for the man and boy to become lovers look it up on wikipedia (i cant vouch for my spelling) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artos Stark Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Thats a good question, neither would be in a hurry to make the first move. It would be interesting to see the Brokebackesque awkwardness between those two lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baratheon3508 Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 Exactly, that's what is so interesting really about their whole relationship.Supposing both of them were attracted to the other, the only way for either to find out if that feeling is mutual is to either ask or make a move. And both seem pretty risky! For Loras especially, being younger and below Renly in rank, it surely would be majorly awkward for him and his family if Renly rejected his advances and outed him as a young squire who had designs on his lord! And likewise as many of you pointed out, whilst Loras is close to renly in age, the gap between a 12 year old and a 16/17 year old still seems pretty large... Would Renly feel comfortable with such a young boy. Interesting about Q of T and mace using Loras as a way of gaining political power over renly. I bet neither of them foresaw quite how well that would work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommen Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I think the "gaydar" issue and who would come onto who out of fear of being outed is sort of moot because the concept of a fixed, exclusive and certain sexual identity is a relatively modern thing in real life. I would imagine it being less difficult for them to get together than if one had been a girl, because it would have been inappropriate for adolescent Renly to be hanging out with girls all the time and it was expected of Loras and Renly to have a close friendship. How the actual sex happened we will never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernshe-wolf Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Loras was only a squire, Renly the middle of attention. Renly probably caught him looking at him, then smiled or something sweet like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grip Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Loras is fortunate enough that he can somewhat get away with it, being the third son he isnt required to provide heirs and whatnot. I mean thats one of the reasons why he can join the KG. If he had a wife and a Lordship he might be in trouble when/if his attraction to Renly would have been discovered, just imagine if Garlan the Lord of Brightwater Keep were found out to be homosexual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peasant Rebel Leader Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 People would talk about it, but as long as he marries and produces heirs its not an issue. As pointed out by Tommen above, the idea of fixed sexual identity is a new one. In earlier ages, getting married and producing sons (and daughters) is the normal way to go, everything outside of that is another issue and often condoned by the Church, but that is regarding sex outside of wedlock in general, wether it is with the neighbour women, a prostitute, a man, a goat or a tree. ;) As for nobility, I'd guess the rule is the same Bolton describes: As long as nobody has to adress it publicly, it's ok. It's a similar situation with the rape Bolton does, as that man himself points out to Ramsay, who does his game in the public and thus gets put down by the Castellan of Winterfell. Game over! (if not for Theon...)Now the affair of Renly and Loras would have become a problem in AFFC/ADWD when the new High Septon with his high concept of morality takes on the scene, but before when religious affairs seem to be completely sidelined in Westeros? Maybe Littlefinger, Varys or Pycelle would have used it to keep some power or in their game of thrones in general, but else? What I am trying to say is that it's certainly not ideal, but other than that, it's a minor issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Given that when they got together, they were both teenage or preteen virgins - is there any evidence that they are homosexuals, and not just monogamous bisexuals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinHouse Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I don't know, I kinda wish we got more insight into it as Loras did interest me for about half a chapter :l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Lora's manipulating Renly is in the show, only.In the books he is very much the man in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayard Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 The sound of a door opening, the scream of a rusted iron hinge. Renly has come again.We shouldn't dismiss the possibility of a situation like this, where Renly abused Loras. Sure, the age difference is only 5 years... but Loras is so young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peasant Rebel Leader Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 But there's nothing hinting at that.16 to 12 may look bad, but there's no hint that something happened at that age, 19 to 15 is just in the okay age range again.And by the way Loras keeps talking about Renly, it does look like the love was fresh. It can't have been going on for long in any case.I agree, it's a possibility, but there's no hints in that direction at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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