"Wow, I Never Noticed That."

[Kittykatknits]

Its shameful for the "Worlds greatest detective" to admit it, I cant pick up signals in real life either.

I thought the world's greatest detective was Sherlock Holmes? ;)

As for me, I didn't realize that much of what Patchface said was prophecy. He freaked me out the first time I read about him that I didn't read what he would say all that closely, it made me so uncomfortable.

[FacelessDude]

I can:

1.) Several characters throughout the books explain a certain poison which causes a man's bowels to clog and basically they die with their bladder exploding on the inside

2.) Oberyn is quite adapt at using poisons as Tyrion explains to Pod when they first meet him.

3.) Oberyn knows for a fact that Tywin ordered The Mountain, and also theorizes that Tywin had Ellia murdered too because Aerys had bethroed her to R over Cersei - couple this all with the fact that Oberyn promises Tyrion twice that Dorne will get it's revenge.

4.) Jaime notes that Tywin, Mace Tyrell and Oberyn were having breakfast together a few weeks before the Viper-VS-Mountain fight. This scene is particularly interesting since Jaime reflects that it's odd that Oberyn and Mace were breaking their fast together, which almost makes you forget that Tywin was even there. VERY brilliant word choice indeed.

5.) Tywin was on the privy, and Tyrion knew "exactly where he would be" - implying Tyrion had a feeling Oberyn had poisoned his dad. That or Tyrion just assumed his dad was shitting gold.

6.) If Tywin's bladder HAD exploded, but he just had yet to die, it would explain the terrible smell in the sept - it was the smell of Tywin's inner destruction and decay

Also, the seventh "purely speculated" clue, but less obvious if it's relevant or not:

7.) Shae was in Tywin's bed naked, implying she slept with Tywin. Either Tywin was a total hypocrite and had secretly loved whores despite chastising both his father and son for whoring, OR Tywin had known that he was about to die and wanted a woman to comfort him. (not sure about the exact details of this)

If I remember any more hints, i'll edit this post.

Edit: fuck, didn't see someone already responded with a link to a thread about it. Damn. :(

Interesting. I had speculations as to why Shae was in Twyin's bed(other than her whoring out to Tywin). I created a thread about it. Never even came close to thinking the Viper poisoned him.

[*Ceallach*]

Until the re-read i didn't pick up the frey pie, or the Jojen-paste. Also didn't pick that Tywin was poisoned - God i love me some Red Viper!

[Harle The Handsome]

Until the re-read i didn't pick up the frey pie, or the Jojen-paste. Also didn't pick that Tywin was poisoned - God i love me some Red Viper!

I am still dubious about the Jojen paste hypothesis.

And as for the Green Grace, she is my prime suspect as The Harpy, but I wouldn't go so far as to say, "It is known."

[janedl]

I totally missed that the alchemist who killed Pate was Jaqen H'gar. I would never have thought to match the descriptions.

[Dolorous K Dilkington]

Tyrion poisoning Nurse. On reread, the "a Lannister always pays his debts" should have been a dead give away.

[Booknerd2]

Doing a second re-read, and while I was on a Cersei pov re-read in AFFC, I came upon the part where she recalls Robert talking about bringing his daughter to court. And then she says something to him that sounds like a threat, and it ends up he doesn't send for her. Wait, it was a threat.

I forgot about that. Makes me think that maybe Robert wanted to be in the life of some of his kids. To start trying. Maybe he was smart enough to realize that his bastards wouldn't last long if he called them, so he stayed away for their own safety.

Made me think differently of him. Also, a part of me wondered, why ignore your other three, and start up with the rest?

Subconciously maybe he had a feeling they weren't his or something wasn't right, he couldn't bond with them?One of those what ifs? Why would he want Mya?

Because Joff is a jerk, but Myrcella and Tommen are easy to get along with.

Headscratcher.

[King Daemon Blackfyre]

Varys in AGOT talking to The Ned about who might have poisoned Jon Arryn:

There was one boy. All he was, he owed Jon Arryn, but when the widow fled to the Eyrie with her household, he stayed in King's Landing and prospered. It always gladdens my heart to see the young rise in this world.

The Ned, and I, assumed he was talking about Ser Hugh of the Vale, Jon Arryn's former squire. But he's actually talking about Littlefinger.

When I realised this = mind officially blown. The Spider's damn riddling!!

[Villemo]

Upon book rereads, family tree research and Wiki scouring, have you ever come across some little bit of minutiae that made you go, "Wow, I never noticed that."

R+L=J

Alleras= Sarella

Jaqen= alchemist (from prologue AFFC)

Frey pie

[The Mountain That Posts]

Varys in AGOT talking to The Ned about who might have poisoned Jon Arryn:

The Ned, and I, assumed he was talking about Ser Hugh of the Vale, Jon Arryn's former squire. But he's actually talking about Littlefinger.

When I realised this = mind officially blown. The Spider's damn riddling!!

Holy. Shit.

There was a few things I learned in this thread(Euron and his wizards, Tywin possibly being the hand who had the passage to the Tower of Hand made) but THIS? This post has easily been the gem of this thread for me, I never caught onto this. Brilliant catch, and brilliant on GRRM's part as well.

ETA: Makes me wonder how exactly Varys would know about Littlefinger/Lysa poisoning Jon Arryn though. Perhaps it's just a coincidence and Varys DOES think it was Ser Hugh as well who poisoned Jon Arryn, and it just so happens his description equally and perfectly matches that of Littlefinger? Interesting.

[Independent George]

I never in a million years would have made the Bonnifer Hasty-Queen Rhaella connection without the forums. That was damned subtle.

[David Selig]

Varys in AGOT talking to The Ned about who might have poisoned Jon Arryn:

The Ned, and I, assumed he was talking about Ser Hugh of the Vale, Jon Arryn's former squire. But he's actually talking about Littlefinger.

I am pretty sure he wasn't. LF isn't exactly young by Westeros standards and he was already prospering before Jon Arryn's death.

[The Manhood-Eating Goat]

I am pretty sure he wasn't. LF isn't exactly young by Westeros standards and he was already prospering before Jon Arryn's death.

But why would Varys be talking about Ser Hugh? They were talking about who was responsible for Jon Arryn's death, and that was Littlefinger.

[The guy from the Vale]

Littlefinger is still pretty young for a King's Landing politician, and clearly quite a bit younger than Varys (at least 10 years). Of those politicians we see, only Tyrion and Renly are younger, and both got their Small Council positions due to their family connections, something Littlefinger sorely lacks. And Varys never says this young man didn't prosper before Jon Arryn died.

No, honestly, this is Varys' MO: He's telling the truth, but always leaving out some crucial piece of information, so he can mislead people while still never being caught on a lie. Catching that line on a reread and analysing me has taught me more about Varys than most other screen scenes with him - because it taught me how to possibly understand whatever Varys says, including such comments as those on 'large shadows' or 'Aegon'.

[white wolfpack]

I totally missed Frey pie. Thank god for these forums because I love stuff like that.

Back in the first book, in a Bran POV, I swear that rickon is pretty obviously warging. I didn't even know what warging was when I read it the first time.

I also missed any Arya+Gendry chemistry, but I always miss that in real life too. I hope we see him again. Most of the way through I was focused on the significance of Robert's bastards and "the seed is strong"....I even thought for a while maybe he was Jon's father. Then one day, R+L=J dawned on me, so I googled it and found this forum.

[FittleLinger]

I am pretty sure he wasn't. LF isn't exactly young by Westeros standards and he was already prospering before Jon Arryn's death.

But he says "there was a boy" (he is a man now is not denied by the wording).

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

But why would Varys be talking about Ser Hugh? They were talking about who was responsible for Jon Arryn's death, and that was Littlefinger.

Yeah, it's a pretty brilliant maneuver. We're sort of led to believe that Ser Hugh had some hand in Arryn's death and that his death in the tourney might be part of the cover-up. But no. It's pretty much like how theguyfromtheVale explained — Varys is telling the truth, it's just that he lets the person to whom he's speaking draw the wrong conclusions. (This is also pretty much exactly what he does in the ADWD epilogue with Aegon, by the way.)

Absolutely he's referring to Baelish and not Ser Hugh. Ser Hugh is a red herring.

[Lord Ben]

The raven that saves Sam and Gilly from the wights was Mormont's raven, the one warged by BR. I didn't catch that until recently for some reason, even though it is sooo obvious. :dunce:

I haven't read anything except the base 5 books. How is it so obvious that it's BR? I never get this reference....

[David Selig]

Still don't buy it, sorry. Why wouldn't Varys use the chance to get rid of LF by ratting him out to the king? And as we saw when he got Sansa away from KL, LF knows how to evade Varys's spies.

[the Scorpion Knight]

another thing that should be mentioned :

illyrios staff consists of retired little birds.