So... is Cersei barren? (possible minor spoilers)

[Thendel]

I think it's perfectly reasonable that a woman of 35 with an unsteady sex life hasn't been pregnant in years.

And by the way, pulling out before ejaculation being a viable form of contraception is a myth - men still spill their seed in pre-ejaculate. It may have reduced chances of Lancel impregnating Cersei ever so slightly, but I think Cersei's fertility plays a major part.

[The BlackBear]

Also she didn't actually sleep with the Kettleblacks that much, (if she even slept with all of them) she just kind of strung them along with promises and teasing them.

[Thendel]

Also she didn't actually sleep with the Kettleblacks that much, (if she even slept with all of them) she just kind of strung them along with promises and teasing them.

Correct. We know for sure that she slept with Osney twice. Osmund is a larger mystery, but it's heavily implied she has slept with him at least once (after she burned the Tower of the Hand). I don't believe she ever slept with Osfryd - he's the one Kettleblack we don't see her interacting with.

[Kittykatknits]

PS I think barren is usually used of women who are lifetime childless due to inability to conceive.

Yep. Usually the term is secondary infertility for women who have problems conceiving after already having children. Although, I doubt that phrase was used in Westeros.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

To be realistic, she's getting old. Yes, she still has her period, but if she's in her early 40s or late 30s, the odds are good that erratic sex, even when 'seed is spilled inside' won't get her pregnant. I know some women who have regular periods but are at the end of their reproductive cycle for different reasons. For example, giving birth to my younger brother left my mother with an ovarian cyst which, while benign, means she can't have any more children. She still has her periods, though.

Furthermore, Cersei mentions that Joffrey's birth was rather difficult. There might have been complications following it, and two more pregnancies with Myrcella and Tommen. She might just be spent, that's all.

Actually, Cersei is 32 to 35 or 36, depending on her exact birthday from Game to Dance. Still old enough to have somewhat reduced fertility.

Furthermore, it's only about a single week during her entire circle when a woman can get pregnant. Cersei had sex how often since Bobby B died? Twice with Jaime, three times with a Kettleblack, a bit with Lancel? Maybe ten times? With a bit of luck, that was all during the other three weeks.

[Light a wight tonight]

Actually, Cersei is 32 to 35 or 36, depending on her exact birthday from Game to Dance. Still old enough to have somewhat reduced fertility.

Furthermore, it's only about a single week during her entire circle when a woman can get pregnant. Cersei had sex how often since Bobby B died? Twice with Jaime, three times with a Kettleblack, a bit with Lancel? Maybe ten times? With a bit of luck, that was all during the other three weeks.

The rhythm method may decrease the chances of pregnancy a lot but it's not "infallible".

[Bright Blue Eyes]

The rhythm method may decrease the chances of pregnancy a lot but it's not "infallible".

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that. But while 9x% (or whatever it is) reliability is no sure way to prevent pregnancy, it explains why a pregnancy could be unlikely.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

This is a good question. The prophecy says she will only have three kids. Now is Cersei was in any way intelligent, she would be trying to get pregnant with a fourth child to break the prophecy. The fact she continues to have sex with Jaime after Tommen's birth suggests she wouldn't have minded a fourth pregnancy, but there's nothing in her POV suggesting she wants a fourth child (she just talks all the time about breaking the prophecy through killing Tyrion).

She obviously asked Lancel to 'squirt on her belly' so to speak. I can understand why she did this, being recently widowed.

I think she must be barren - mainly because of the prophecy and the fact there's been many opportunities with Jaime for her to conceive.

What I don't understand is how she doesn't seem aware of this in her POV chapters.

If she were barren, she wouldn't have any children at all.

[Dr. Pepper]

The doctor in New Girl shattered every adult woman's dreams by telling us that 90% of your eggs are gone by 30.

Coitus interruptus is not a sure birth control method, but it's one that has been in use for thousands of years with a fairly good success rate. CI coupled with reduced fertility due to aging makes it believable for Cersei not to have become pregnant in the last few years.

[Blindsie]

Okay for one thing I don't think she has been having that much sex. The Kettlebacks have problem been with her once.

From my memory the last time she was was with Jaime she was having her 'Moon blood'.

But I'm pretty sure she is taking contraception, she's not stupid enough to get pregnant as a widow.

[nara]

I thought she only attempted to have sex with him... or maybe that was after Tywin died ~____~

I really don't remember them doing it at all... and bwaaah, I just reread the books. My memory is serving me poorly.

How could you possibly forget the sex in the sept next to the body of their son while she's having her moonblood? I wish I could forget that one! :ack:

[Brienne Of Bombay]

I'm sure Cersei is extra cautious regarding not getting pregnant and not barren.

[Lyanna Stark]

Actually, Cersei is 32 to 35 or 36, depending on her exact birthday from Game to Dance. Still old enough to have somewhat reduced fertility.

Not very. How about some facts. Cersei has been pregnant before as well, meaning she has no inherent problems getting pregnant as far as we know of**. No history of miscarriages, no over/underweight, no STDs (that we know of) etc etc. It's of course possible that she has developed issues after having her first three children, but given her circumstances and age, and a somewhat normal sex life***, she would still very likely get pregnant without taking precautions. Which, as it seems she is familiar with Moon tea, it is likely that she has done. Or she may indeed be pregnant again as she is complaining about her dresses, although it seems that may be more due to over drinking and stress. Along with fertility, metabolism slows in the 30s, which means she may also be gaining weight due to eating/drinking what she used to be able to do earlier.

** (I know it well since I am 36 and currently carrying child no 2, and I spoke about it with my doctor who claimed the overwhelming probability for someone who is already proven to be fertile, has no other issues and just passed 35 is to be able to get pregnant again without problems. It may take a bit longer than for say someone at age 23-24 though, but that is about it. )

***which of course seems somewhat unlikely

[Kittykatknits]

** (I know it well since I am 36 and currently carrying child no 2, and I spoke about it with my doctor who claimed the overwhelming probability for someone who is already proven to be fertile, has no other issues and just passed 35 is to be able to get pregnant again without problems. It may take a bit longer than for say someone at age 23-24 though, but that is about it. )

***which of course seems somewhat unlikely

As someone in the exact same position, I admit to finding some of the statements about Cersei being used up, spent, and with reduced fertility at the ripe old age of younger than me a bit eye-rolling.

[Winter's Knight]

As someone in the exact same position, I admit to finding some of the statements about Cersei being used up, spent, and with reduced fertility at the ripe old age of younger than me a bit eye-rolling.

:rofl:

I feel the same way when people start talking about how old and fat she's getting-because a woman gaining weight in her mid-thirties, after three pregnancies is such an unusual occurance. Y'know, a lot of Cersei's arc in Feast and Dance strikes me as being uncomfortably similar to Break the Bitch tropes one comes across in third-rate fiction.

[Dr. Pepper]

As someone in the exact same position, I admit to finding some of the statements about Cersei being used up, spent, and with reduced fertility at the ripe old age of younger than me a bit eye-rolling.

I don't get the used up arguments, but the fact is, fertility is greatly decreased in women when they reach their 30's. There isn't anything unusual about Cersei not becoming pregnant despite having semi-frequent sex.

[Kittykatknits]

I don't get the used up arguments, but the fact is, fertility is greatly decreased in women when they reach their 30's. There isn't anything unusual about Cersei not becoming pregnant despite having semi-frequent sex.

That's not quite correct, check out the link that LS posted above. An increase from 5% to 8% at the age of 30-34 hardly points to fertility being greatly decreased when they reach their 30s. The sharp decline actually doesn't take place until a woman reaches her early 40s even with slight increases in the infertility rate in their 30s. Also, a woman is less likely in her 30s to get pregnant in any particular ovulation period as compared to a woman in her 30s which the chart does reflect but that is not a reflection of infertility. It just means that it usually takes a woman a bit longer than it might have if she was younger, but that's it. For Cersei, who has successfully had four pregnancies, there is nothing to indicate a sharp loss in fertility.

[Dr. Pepper]

That's not quite correct, check out the link that LS posted above. An increase from 5% to 8% at the age of 30-34 hardly points to fertility being greatly decreased when they reach their 30s. The sharp decline actually doesn't take place until a woman reaches her early 40s even with slight increases in the infertility rate in their 30s. Also, a woman is less likely in her 30s to get pregnant in any particular ovulation period as compared to a woman in her 30s which the chart does reflect but that is not a reflection of infertility. It just means that it usually takes a woman a bit longer than it might have if she was younger, but that's it. For Cersei, who has successfully had four pregnancies, there is nothing to indicate a sharp loss in fertility.

This is a direct quote with reference from that link: Fertility starts to decline for women from about the age of 30, dropping down more steeply from the age of 35 (CKS 2007, NCCWCH 2004:26). As women grow older the likelihood of getting pregnant falls while the likelihood of infertility rises.

Cersei is about 35. Her fertility, which is tied in with likelihood of pregnancy, has greatly decreased since her last known pregnancy ten years ago. My point stands, there is nothing at all unusual about Cersei not becoming pregnant despite semi-frequent sex, especially when coupled with coitus interruptus. There is also the possibility she's using another birth control method like moon tea, oral sex, or mutual masturbation. But the only point I'm making is that there's nothing unusual about her lack of pregnancy considering her age and practices. I'm not at all implying that being 35 means something like "used up" or "dried out" or that lower infertility is somehow a bad thing. I don't think any of the more reasonable responses have come close to implying that. It's just a statement of fact.