So... is Cersei barren? (possible minor spoilers)

[lozeldatkm]

She must be using Moon tea but using a drug too much may cause some permanent side effects some times and she was using the stuff since she was a teenager.But after Pycelle died i think she has to find a new supplier.

Obviously Pycelle's death won't be a good thing for Cersei, but I think it'd be far from her biggest concern at the moment.

the father will be moon boy

LOL!

[The BlackBear]

This is a good question. The prophecy says she will only have three kids. Now is Cersei was in any way intelligent, she would be trying to get pregnant with a fourth child to break the prophecy. The fact she continues to have sex with Jaime after Tommen's birth suggests she wouldn't have minded a fourth pregnancy, but there's nothing in her POV suggesting she wants a fourth child (she just talks all the time about breaking the prophecy through killing Tyrion).

She obviously asked Lancel to 'squirt on her belly' so to speak. I can understand why she did this, being recently widowed.

I think she must be barren - mainly because of the prophecy and the fact there's been many opportunities with Jaime for her to conceive.

What I don't understand is how she doesn't seem aware of this in her POV chapters.

Getting pregnant now would seriously screw her over. She may as well hand the keys to Stannis (he's a little brother too)

She hasn't slept with Jaime a huge deal since Roberts death, and maybe she's just not massively fertile, but not actually barren.

[Light a wight tonight]

Obviously Pycelle's death won't be a good thing for Cersei, but I think it'd be far from her biggest concern at the moment.

She can get whatever she wants from Qyburn. She raised him, she can cast him down.

[Jaime's Wench]

Getting pregnant now would seriously screw her over. She may as well hand the keys to Stannis (he's a little brother too)

She hasn't slept with Jaime a huge deal since Roberts death, and maybe she's just not massively fertile, but not actually barren.

True but she needs to break the prophecy, damnit, and a fourth child would do that! I don't see how she doesn't realise this.

She's slept with Jaime once since Robert's death, while she was on her period, so that doesn't say much. The reason I say she's barren is purely because of the prophecy.

[The BlackBear]

True but she needs to break the prophecy, damnit, and a fourth child would do that! I don't see how she doesn't realise this.

She's slept with Jaime once since Robert's death, while she was on her period, so that doesn't say much. The reason I say she's barren is purely because of the prophecy.

People can have difficulty conceiving without being Barren, especially if their sex is erratic. Having lots of sex is probably not the best way to try and break a prophesy.

Generally in fiction trying to break prophesies brings them about.

[Jaime's Wench]

People can have difficulty conceiving without being Barren, especially if their sex is erratic. Having lots of sex is probably not the best way to try and break a prophesy.

Generally in fiction trying to break prophesies brings them about.

I know, but it isn't like now where there's many means of enhancing conception. I would be interested to know how Moon Tea works - is it basically the Morning After Pill in a more primitive form? Surely taking this for years on end must take its toil on a woman's fertility.

[Quiet Isle]

I know, but it isn't like now where there's many means of enhancing conception. I would be interested to know how Moon Tea works - is it basically the Morning After Pill in a more primitive form? Surely taking this for years on end must take its toil on a woman's fertility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tansy

Tansy (Tanacetum vulgare) is a perennial, herbaceous flowering plant of the aster family, native to temperate Europe and Asia. It has been introduced to other parts of the world and in some areas has become invasive. It is also known as Common Tansy, Bitter Buttons,Cow Bitter, Mugwort, or Golden Buttons.

Tansy is native to Eurasia; it is found in almost all parts of mainland Europe. It is absent from Siberia and some of the Mediterraneanislands.^[1] The ancient Greeks may have been the first to cultivate it as a medicinal herb.^[2] In the sixteenth century it was considered to be "necessary for a garden" in Britain.^[3]

Traditionally, tansy was often used for its emmenagogue effects to bring on menstruation or end an unwanted pregnancy, and pregnant women are advised to not use this herb.

[Jaime's Wench]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tansy

Tansy (Tanacetum vulgare) is a perennial, herbaceousflowering plant of the aster family, native to temperateEurope and Asia. It has been introduced to other parts of the world and in some areas has become invasive. It is also known as Common Tansy, Bitter Buttons,Cow Bitter, Mugwort, or Golden Buttons.

Tansy is native to Eurasia; it is found in almost all parts of mainland Europe. It is absent from Siberia and some of the Mediterraneanislands.^[1] The ancient Greeks may have been the first to cultivate it as a medicinal herb.^[2] In the sixteenth century it was considered to be "necessary for a garden" in Britain.^[3]

Traditionally, tansy was often used for its emmenagogue effects to bring on menstruation or end an unwanted pregnancy, and pregnant women are advised to not use this herb.

Interesting. I may include this in my novel (really bad that I haven't researched birth controls much, despite being on my third of fourth historical novel where women end up having extra-martial sex).

I assume it's not a 100% gurantee and does have some consequences. If a wound is being persistently purged and the cycle shaken up, it must effect fertility.

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

I kinda like the theory Ive seen on here that Cersei's clothes are getting tight not just due to age and getting fat, but due to pregnancy.

Or maybe she squeezes her vagina to avoid pregnancy like that one politician said.

And insult to injury it will be born with jet black hair, courtesy of a Kettleblack.

[Kittykatknits]

I know, but it isn't like now where there's many means of enhancing conception. I would be interested to know how Moon Tea works - is it basically the Morning After Pill in a more primitive form? Surely taking this for years on end must take its toil on a woman's fertility.

Not quite, egg yolks and similar have been used for a long time to enhance conception. Charting methods to learn your own fertility have been around for a long time now too.

[Fire Eater]

It's a mixture of following Rush Limbaugh's suggestion of pulling out, and drinking some moon tea.

[Bluesnow]

Getting pregnant now would seriously screw her over.

Not really... she's already admitted to sleeping with Lancel and the Kettlebacks >.>

I don't think having a child would make it particularly worse for her... if anything it could prolong her life. If Robert Strong were to fail in battle, but it was found out she was pregnant, they might not execute her till after the child is born even if it is a bastard. There's been plenty of real life examples in history that follow this trend.

[King.In.Yellow]

To be realistic, she's getting old. Yes, she still has her period, but if she's in her early 40s or late 30s, the odds are good that erratic sex, even when 'seed is spilled inside' won't get her pregnant. I know some women who have regular periods but are at the end of their reproductive cycle for different reasons. For example, giving birth to my younger brother left my mother with an ovarian cyst which, while benign, means she can't have any more children. She still has her periods, though.

Furthermore, Cersei mentions that Joffrey's birth was rather difficult. There might have been complications following it, and two more pregnancies with Myrcella and Tommen. She might just be spent, that's all.

[Ser Lepus]

Cersei has a bunch of septas watching her all the 24 hours of the day now, she hasn't many chances of having sex.

[Lord of the Hillbillies]

Cersei is not barren, she just doesn't want more kids. Lancel did not...finish inside her, for example.

Lancel informed about his coitus interruptus technique. IMO this was done to show how relatively naive he still was at that point and not to give explanation as to Cersei not getting pregnant by him.

Again, this is all true. She has no reason to want one. The question is, she's been having so much sex, how does she avoid it? Yeah, I guess asking Lancel to pull out is one thing but that's not 100% effective at all.

The answer is that she uses moon tea. Another post indicated that there are likely long term side effects to using moon tea that could include difficulty or inability to conceive. This is probably true. Also, she has Qyburn who is studied in certain dark practices and may have additional therapies.

[Jaime's Wench]

Not quite, egg yolks and similar have been used for a long time to enhance conception. Charting methods to learn your own fertility have been around for a long time now too.

It's not quite IVF though!

I really should teach this as part of Medicine Through Time.

"Right kids, today we're doing birth control and abortions through time." They'd love it!

[The BlackBear]

"Right kids, today we're doing birth control and abortions through time." They'd love it!

Starting with the Falcon Punch

[Florina Laufeyson]

Some of the replies in this thread are a bit... :stillsick:

Anyway, Cersei isnt barren or "too old" or whatever. Shes most likely simply taking precautions to avoid pregnancy. When she is with Lancel, she has him spill the seed on her belly to avoid just that. We dont actually SEE the Kettleblack foolings, but i would assume she may be using the same tactic or has Pycelle or even Qyburn giving her moon tea in secret. Shes smart enough to know that if she got pregnant at this time, it would spell very bad news for her. Queen Regent birthing a bastard isnt exactly seen as kosher. Even if she is widowed.

[Lion of Judah]

A while ago someone brought up a point with textual evidence that Cersei may be pregnant right now. I can't remember the heading of the thread though, but it seemed like a reasonable theory so I would say she is not barren.

[Castellan]

She has had sex with Jaime far from every day. I was going to put up a timeline of Jaime's sex life when those other sex topics went up but I assumed it would be removed. The more you read Jaime's memories the more obvious it is how deluded Jaime has been. Over the years he gets to have infrequent stolen moments with a really unpleasant person and it always comes with a price tag.

She and Jaime don't seem to have had sex after her marriage until Robert dragged them both off to Greenstone so he could have sex with his host's wife. That's when she said she wanted Jaime to give Robert cuckolds horns and she thinks she conceived Joffrey.

Her fertility should be beginning to decline about now, quite a sharp drop off after 35.

She practises contraception. I would say this could be the reason, don't you?

She avoided full intercourse with husband for years.

She has avoided any contact with Jaime since she decided he's nuts.

The gap between Joff and Myrcella may be when she got pregnant to Robert and aborted it.

She thought three was enough (she was one of three herself). Westeros don't seem to have huge families.

Is this enough?

PS I think barren is usually used of women who are lifetime childless due to inability to conceive.