From Pawn to Player: Rethinking Sansa XVII

[Milady of York]

Happy first anniversary, ladies!

It’s been a pleasure to learn more about Sansa here at the PtP threads, with you, in the few months since I’ve joined the board. Your discussions, and your enormous production of essays and analyses are quite impressive and very helpful to newcomers; you’ve created an Encyclopaedia for this compelling character that is Sansa, and I thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute what little I could during my short time here; and I hope to be able to come back and retake some pending projects once time allows me to.

[Lyanna Stark]

Sure; remember that Sandor takes the place of Tyrion in this dream, so when we recall the events of the original scene, Tyrion climbs into bed naked with Sansa. Therefore, it stands to reason that Sandor himself is also undressed, and even more importantly, Sansa is looking at him as he climbs into the bed, which suggests that this is not a frightening experience for her.

For comparison, here are the relevant passages from ASOS:

Her hands trembled as she began fumbling at her clothes. She had ten thumbs instead of fingers, and all of them were broken. Yet somehow she managed the laces and buttons, and her cloak and gown and girdle and undersilk slid to the floor, until finally she was stepping out of her smallclothes. Gooseprickles covered her arms and legs. She kept her eyes on the floor, too shy to look at him, but when she was done, she glanced up and found him staring. There was hunger in his green eye, it seemed to her, and fury in the black.

What we can glean from this passage is that Sansa is naked, and she recognises that Tyrion is attracted to her, even as it frightens her (and rightly so, I think).

She climbed onto the featherbed, conscious of his stare. A scented beeswax candle burned on the bedside table and rose petals had been strewn between the sheets. She had started to pull up a blanket to cover herself when she heard him say "No".

The cold made her shiver, but she obeyed. Her eyes closed, and she waited. After a moment she heard the sound of her husband pulling off his boots, and the rustle of clothing as he undressed himself. When he hopped up on the bed and put his hand on her breast, Sansa could not help but shudder. She lay with her eyes close, every muscle tense, dreading what might come next. Would he touch her again? Kiss her? Should she open her legs for him now?

The obvious conclusion to be drawn from this scene is that Sansa is an unwilling participant. She's passive and has her eyes closed.

But, if we compare it to the later dream scene, there are a couple of things that play out differently, apart from the substitution that takes place where Tyrion morphs into Sandor.

And she dreamed of her wedding night too. Of Tyrion's eyes devouring her as she undressed. Only then he was bigger than Tyrion had any right to be, and when he climbed into the bed his face was scarred only on one side. "I'll have a song from you", he rasped, and Sansa woke and found the old blind dog beside her once more.

A couple of things stand out here as different. First, as background, this takes place just after Marillion has tried to rape Sansa and told her "I'll make you sing louder than the Lady Lysa", clearly connecting "singing" as meaning "sex" just the paragraph earlier.

In comparison, we know that Tyrion's eyes weren't devouring her as she undressed, because she barely looked. This is a later construction that is only somewhat true. When Sansa glanced, she saw "hunger" in the green eye and fury in the black, but here in her dream, it is not at all ambiguous. She's undressing for someone who finds her attractive, and in comparison to the Tyrion incident, there is no description of being terrified of barely glancing. And note that the substitution happens at the desire part. Tyrion was watching her and desired her, and dream-Sansa substitutes that person, at that point in time.

When we get to the "climbed into bed" part, we also get an identification: scarred on one side, raspy voice. Sansa doesn't name him, but it's obvious to the readers. We also have the discrepancy that this time, there is no indication that her eyes are closed. In fact, since we get the description of the scar, that means she must have been looking, so that means her eyes were open, unlike at her wedding night with Tyrion.

Then lastly, "I'll have a song from you" which Marillion had so kindly explained meant sex (and sexual pleasure, if we should believe Marillion, since he claimed he'd please Sansa even more than Petyr was pleasing Lysa in the tower above).

I honestly have no idea how this can be interpreted in any other way than Sansa having sexual thoughts. Based on the text and the sequence of events, it seems to be the only credible conclusion.

Further, the dream sequence has none of the terror or embarrassment of the original wedding night. The only feeling expressed in that part of the dream is that "he was bigger than Tyrion had any right to be" indicating a forbidding attitude towards Tyrion. Tyrion "had no right", but there is no value statement regarding the substitute apart from that Tyrion is portrayed in a more negative light.

Lastly, it may be pertinent to then add Sansa's thoughts regarding Myranda Royce's comment on marriage beds, wherein Myranda asks Sansa if she knows what goes on in a marriage bed, and Sansa nods and thinks of two different people: Tyrion and Sandor. Now Tyrion is logical, she was and is married to him. But why Sandor inserted into "marriage bed"? The only time he has shared a bed with Sansa (after a fashion) was at the Battle of the Blackwater, at the time of the UnKiss. Yet despite that, he is bestowed the same "value" here, or importance, when it comes to marriage beds as Tyrion. And the only time we have seen Sandor in Sansa's "marriage bed" was in the dream she had, quoted earlier.

Interestingly, both in the dream and at the Battle of the Blackwater, their interaction is framed by Lady being mentioned.

I might also add that Sansa is still quite young. She is of the same age as Dany was in AGOT as of the end of ASOS. We don't really see Dany developing sexual thoughts until a bit later, but as of ADWD when Dany is 16-17, her thoughts and reactions to sex and sexuality are completely different than AGOT Dany's. In comparison, Asha and Arianne are both in their 20s and are a fair bit more experienced (although for reference Arianne tells us that she lost her virginity to Daemon Sand at age 14 in one of her AFFC chapters, giving us further references to at what age sex becomes important to Westerosi women, although the Dornish may be a bit ahead of the curve).

[brashcandy]

Ragnorak,

That's a fantastic comprehensive analysis. It seems there are definitely links between Bran - Sansa - Jon that are not apparent at first since the Ayra - Jon connection is so strong. It's interesting how GRRM handles the "low magic" setting and the Stark children's warg magic capabilities. They are so subtly described as to be almost invisible sometimes, but laid out like this I think a case can definitely be made.

It is indeed interesting. When Lady lost her life it looked like some negative foreshadowing for Sansa's fate, but this hasn't materialised; instead, we've seen Sansa's northern affiliation growing stronger as time goes on and the memory of Lady and her wolf identity is with her up to AFFC. Rag also mentioned the dragon's breath scene at the KL godswood, where Ned takes the girls to pray when they learn Bran has awakened. It's here that Sansa mentions seeing Bran smiling, and the role that Lady played might be responsible for her access to such a dream. Crackpotting, but hey... :)

[Éadaoin]

Sure; remember that Sandor takes the place of Tyrion in this dream, so when we recall the events of the original scene, Tyrion climbs into bed naked with Sansa. Therefore, it stands to reason that Sandor himself is also undressed, and even more importantly, Sansa is looking at him as he climbs into the bed, which suggests that this is not a frightening experience for her.

For comparison, here is the relevant passages from ASOS:

What we can glean from this passage is that Sansa is naked, and she recognises that Tyrion is attracted to her, even as it frightens her (and rightly so, I think).

The obvious conclusion to be drawn from this scene is that Sansa is an unwilling participant. She's passive and has her eyes closed.

But, if we compare it to the later dream scene, there are a couple of things that play out differently, apart from the substitution that takes place where Tyrion morphs into Sandor.

A couple of things stand out here as different. First, as background, this takes place just after Marillion has tried to rape Sansa and told her "I'll make you sing louder than the Lady Lysa", clearly connecting "singing" as meaning "sex" just the paragraph earlier.

In comparison, we know that Tyrion's eyes weren't devouring her as she undressed, because she barely looked. This is a later construction that is only somewhat true. When Sansa glanced, she saw "hunger" in the green eye and fury in the black, but here in her dream, it is not at all ambiguous. She's undressing for someone who finds her attractive, and in comparison to the Tyrion incident, there is no description of being terrified of barely glancing. And note that the substitution happens at the desire part. Tyrion was watching her and desired her, and dream-Sansa substitutes that person, at that point in time.

When we get to the "climbed into bed" part, we also get an identification: scarred on one side, raspy voice. Sansa doesn't name him, but it's obvious to the readers. We also have the discrepancy that this time, there is no indication that her eyes are closed. In fact, since we get the description of the scar, that means she must have been looking, so that means her eyes were open, unlike at her wedding night with Tyrion.

Then lastly, "I'll have a song from you" which Marillion had so kindly explained meant sex (and sexual pleasure, if we should believe Marillion, since he claimed he'd please Sansa even more than Petyr was pleasing Lysa in the tower above).

I honestly have no idea how this can be interpreted in any other way than Sansa having sexual thoughts. Based on the text and the sequence of events, it seems to be the only credible conclusion.

Thank you, brash and Lyanna. Although I am not a SanSan shipper, I find it vitally important that Sansa seems to have 'chosen' Sandor. She did not choose Tyrion and she did not want him - however, she shows signs of being attracted to Sandor. She is not just a pawn in this relationship (whatever kind of relationship it may be), or something to be used - she has power here, which I imagine is very important to someone whom others have tried to keep powerless.

At least, that has been my interpretation. Hope this didn't derail the thread any.

[Le Cygne]

The line bigger than Tyrion had any right to be, I read a little differently. After reading the Dunk and Egg stories, all these "big" references really stand out. Dunk is a big guy, too, and at one point a woman tells him, I think you must be big all over.

There's a scene where he refers to the point of Jaime's sword and I looked back and sure enough, he refers to the point of Sandor's dagger. Beautiful in that it's subtly expressing desire, but also unique forms of communication for these men in particular.

The laying in bed wishing she had gone with him (the I wish the Hound were here "soliloquy"), I always thought that was very subtle, too. He manages to evoke so much with so few words, not only in the passages themselves, but placement within the narrative.

[Lyanna Stark]

Thank you, brash and Lyanna. Although I am not a SanSan shipper, I find it vitally important that Sansa seems to have 'chosen' Sandor. She did not choose Tyrion and she did not want him - however, she shows signs of being attracted to Sandor. She is not just a pawn in this relationship (whatever kind of relationship it may be), or something to be used - she has power here, which I imagine is very important to someone whom others have tried to keep powerless.

At least, that has been my interpretation. Hope this didn't derail the thread any.

No, I think this is what makes us support it. Sansa's own choice, and also the use of the gaze.

Earlier on we see that it's Sansa who looks at Sandor, or he asks her to do it, reversing the "default" of the male gaze quite a lot. Sansa is then the active party. The same goes for the dream sequence, in that we have Sansa changing a scenario where she was passive, terrified and had her eyes shut, to one where she is actively perceiving what is happening around her, and she is looking. The description in the beginning of Tyrion's eyes devouring her and at that point he turns into somebody else is interesting in this regard since we know that Sansa didn't look in the original scene, but here she does, and what happens then? She substitutes Tyrion, and instead of keeping her eyes shut in terror, she looks back, and the scene takes on another mutual connotation that the original lacks.

There's a scene where he refers to the point of Jaime's sword and I looked back and sure enough, he refers to the point of Sandor's dagger. Beautiful in that it's subtly expressing desire, but also unique forms of communication for these men in particular.

Cersei names the sword as a phallic symbol in one of the ACOK chapters as well ("both kinds of swords") and interestingly, just around that chapter, Sandor first lays his sword against Sansa's neck, and then slightly later on puts his dagger at her throat, to the point of drawing a drop of blood. So you know, if we're into foreshadowing, phallic symbols drawing blood and Sansa huddling under a white bloody cloak? Yeah well... :lol:

[Lady Green]

Lyanna Stark and Brashcandy,

I believe I must bow down to your supperior knowledge. I'm not a fan of the SanSan idea so might have semi-ignored the passages. I do still stand by their reasons for being attracted towards each other though.

[Le Cygne]

duplicate

[brashcandy]

Lastly, it may be pertinent to then add Sansa's thoughts regarding Myranda Royce's comment on marriage beds, wherein Myranda asks Sansa if she knows what goes on in a marriage bed, and Sansa nods and thinks of two different people: Tyrion and Sandor. Now Tyrion is logical, she was and is married to him. But why Sandor inserted into "marriage bed"? The only time he has shared a bed with Sansa (after a fashion) was at the Battle of the Blackwater, at the time of the UnKiss. Yet despite that, he is bestowed the same "value" here, or importance, when it comes to marriage beds as Tyrion. And the only time we have seen Sandor in Sansa's "marriage bed" was in the dream she had, quoted earlier.

Interestingly, both in the dream and at the Battle of the Blackwater, their interaction is framed by Lady being mentioned.

Great points, and I'd argue that he's ultimately given more value than Tyrion in her thoughts about the marriage when Randa questions her. Tyrion remains very much a static figure in Sansa's past, and we've seen that she only brings him up when she's trying to avoid a similar terrible fate - marriage to Sweetrobin, or Harry the Heir. In contrast, memories of Sandor are quite dynamic - he replaces Tyrion in the dream, she chooses to remember him with Sweetrobin, and thinks of "how" he kissed her with reference to the marriage bed. Now the "how he kissed her" is important here, because once again, Sansa is applying some extended meaning to this memory. What's suggested here is that the kiss would have led somewhere, that she could interpret by the nature of the kiss that it belongs in the marriage bed, so to speak. Very interesting the mutations this memory undergoes to bring Sandor and Sansa up to the point of consummation within marriage.

Lyanna Stark and Brashcandy,

I believe I must bow down to your supperior knowledge. I'm not a fan of the SanSan idea so might have semi-ignored the passages. I do still stand by their reasons for being attracted towards each other though.

And I hope you know you're under no compulsion to be a "Sansan" fan. In this thread, however, we do treat the relationship just as importantly as any other in Sansa's arc, and so require that textual evidence be at the forefront of any analysis. And we're all here to learn from each other hopefully! :)

[Éadaoin]

Lyanna Stark and Brashcandy,

I believe I must bow down to your supperior knowledge. I'm not a fan of the SanSan idea so might have semi-ignored the passages. I do still stand by their reasons for being attracted towards each other though.

I am curious as to what makes you think he will be a father figure to her? Dreaming of him climbing into bed with her (among other things) seems to point away from that conclusion to me.

[Lyanna Stark]

Regarding "shipping" I am normally a really boring old lady as I stick to canon only. Meaning yes, I always "shipped" Ron with Hermione and Harry with Ginny. I'm boring, conventional and like textual evidence. And stuff like tea cozies, proper time tables and technical documentation. ;)

Hence why I also "ship" that Dany will fall in love with Jon due to the blue rose in the Wall, and that Brienne/Jaime and Sansa/Sandor are the couples we see play out before us that have romantic over tones. Or under tones, or connotations, or whatever you want to call it.

I am curious as to what makes you think he will be a father figure to her? Dreaming of him climbing into bed with her seems to point away from that conclusion to me.

Unless you're Craster, perhaps? :stillsick:

[brashcandy]

Unless you're Craster, perhaps? :stillsick:

Or Littlefinger :stillsick: :stillsick:

[Le Cygne]

More scene descriptions, please, Lyanna. I'd love to hear your take on the Jaime and Brienne ones, too. The creek fight was full of suggestion. There was a blossom of blood, as I recall. I'll look it up... At the end, he spit water in her face.

High, low, overhand, he rained down steel upon her. Left, right, backslash, swinging so hard that sparks flew when the swords came together, upswing, sideslash, overhand, always attacking, moving into her, step and slide, strike and step, step and strike, hacking, slashing, faster,faster,faster …

… until, breathless, he stepped back and let the point of the sword fall to the ground, giving her a moment of respite. "Not half bad," he acknowledged. "For a wench."...

The dance went on. He pinned her against an oak, cursed as she slipped away, followed her through a shallow brook half-choked with fallen leaves... He laughed a ragged, breathless laugh. "Come on, come on, my sweetling, the music's still playing. Might I have this dance, my lady?"...

Instead she forced him back into the brook again, shouting, "Yield! Throw down the sword!"

A slick stone turned under Jaime's foot. As he felt himself falling, he twisted the mischance into a diving lunge. His point scraped past her parry and bit into her upper thigh. A red flower blossomed, and Jaime had an instant to savor the sight of her blood before his knee slammed into a rock. The pain was blinding. Brienne splashed into him and kicked away his sword. "YIELD!"

Jaime drove his shoulder into her legs, bringing her down on top of him. They rolled, kicking and punching until finally she was sitting astride him. He managed to jerk her dagger from its sheath, but before he could plunge it into her belly she caught his wrist and slammed his hands back on a rock so hard he thought she'd wrenched an arm from its socket. Her other hand spread across his face. "Yield!"

She shoved his head down, held it under, pulled it up. "Yield!" Jaime spit water into her face. A shove, a splash, and he was under again, kicking uselessly, fighting to breathe. Up again. "Yield, or I'll drown you!"

"And break your oath?" he snarled. "Like me?"

She let him go, and he went down with a splash.

[Éadaoin]

Unless you're Craster, perhaps? :stillsick:

Fair point. :lol:

I think their relationship would be ultimately quite different if, in her heart, Sansa views him as a father figure.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY THREAD!!!!!

Regarding "shipping" I am normally a really boring old lady as I stick to canon only. Meaning yes, I always "shipped" Ron with Hermione and Harry with Ginny. I'm boring, conventional and like textual evidence. And stuff like tea cozies, proper time tables and technical documentation. ;)

Hence why I also "ship" that Dany will fall in love with Jon due to the blue rose in the Wall, and that Brienne/Jaime and Sansa/Sandor are the couples we see play out before us that have romantic over tones. Or under tones, or connotations, or whatever you want to call it.

Unless you're Craster, perhaps? :stillsick:

I'm kinda rooting for Dany/Daario anymore. I admit. It's Troll Bronn. I didn't like really like him, but didn't really care if Dany had a boy toy. But some of the anti-Dany/Daario things have been so silly/stupid it makes me root for it in spite.

[Lyanna Stark]

Great points, and I'd argue that he's ultimately given more value than Tyrion in her thoughts about the marriage when Randa questions her. Tyrion remains very much a static figure in Sansa's past, and we've seen that she only brings him up when she's trying to avoid a similar terrible fate - marriage to Sweetrobin, or Harry the Heir. In contrast, memories of Sandor are quite dynamic - he replaces Tyrion in the dream, she chooses to remember him with Sweetrobin, and thinks of "how" he kissed her with reference to the marriage bed. Now the "how he kissed her" is important here, because once again, Sansa is applying some extended meaning to this memory. What's suggested here is that the kiss would have led somewhere, that she could interpret by the nature of the kiss that it belongs in the marriage bed, so to speak. Very interesting the mutations this memory undergoes to bring Sansa and Sansa up to the point of consummation within marriage.

Yes those things are very interesting. I also think you are right in that following how her memories of Sandor "evolve" and how she changes the original scenes to create dynamic and more interesting dreams/fantasies are in themselves quite telling. They are also quite subtle in that on a shallow reading, it can either be missed, or people think it's a bodyguard crush or Stockholm syndrome or Sansa being traumatised, but what stands out once you go over it is that the active component is far more Sansa's than in the original scenes. Sansa creates dreams/fantasies where she is a more active participant, where she is the one "owning" the gaze to a larger degree.

Considering that a lot of Sansa's arc is about lacking agency and regaining agency, it's relevant how she constructs these dreams and fantasies, I think, since they are in many ways related to the themes of powerlessness vs agency (this also came up in Arya's chapters during the reread, of how a lot of what happens to Arya is a reaction to powerlessness). We have her go from willingly blinded by Joffrey, to apalled by Cersei's comment about how she was sold as a horse to be ridden and discarded, even if she was Robert's queen, onto her tentative agreement to marry Willas Tyrell, the dreadful Tyrion wedding and then in late ASOS she wants to go to Lysa and tell her she will never marry Sweetrobin. We have the complete evolution from willing sheep, to disbelief, to trying to mesh the two viewpoints, to rejection (with Tyrion and Sweetrobin).

The further her rejection of the Westerosi notion of what a proper lady should behave like (dutiful to whichever husband is thrust upon her), the more she develops the dreams too, and as her thoughts and wishes lean more towards having power over her own life and fate, we also see the dreams and fantasies develop alongside those wishes. We know she hated Joffrey, she rejected Tyrion and Sweetrobin, but what seems to happen when Sansa gets a choice is that it's either Loras Tyrell or Sandor that get inserted, but then even Loras gets substituted in AFFC. And all the substitutions, additions and extra flourishes Sansa applies she does with dreams and fantasies concerning Sandor. Nobody else gets that treatment.

More scene descriptions, please, Lyanna. I'd love to hear your take on the Jaime and Brienne ones, too. The creek fight was full of suggestion. There was a blossom of blood, as I recall. I'll look it up... At the end, he spit water in her face.

That scene is like "sex with swords", 100%. It's even got Jaime's almost drowning as the "petite mort" finish, so yeah. I'd say that scene is not even subtle. :lol:

Or Littlefinger :stillsick: :stillsick:

Oh God yeah, LF is the obvious twisted father figure in Sansa's arc. So much of their interaction is vaguely incestuous it creeps me out.

Now, if we are talking negation of agency, I think LF is king at this. He's really trying to twist Sansa to believe that his agenda is her agenda, and he cons her, emotionally blackmails her and does all sorts of tricks to get her to go along with him. LF will tolerate no deviation from the path and no obstinacy or difference in opinion. He may have tolerated it when Sansa built the snow castle, but then even there he tries to emotionally manipulate her to toe his line (and then he went on to kiss her while Lysa watched...).

[Lummel]

You old ladies with your Sandor Syndrome. I don't know **shakes head**.

[Lady Lea]

In a semi-related thought there is MMD's resurrection of Drogo that has me wondering too. Someone had a thread about her dagger and whether it being bronze and the ancient glyphs connected it to the First Men.

"Mirri Maz Duur chanted words in a tongue that Dany did not know, and a knife appeared in her hand. Dany never saw where it came from. It looked old; hammered red bronze, leaf-shaped, its blade covered with ancient glyphs."

Her lines about the strength of the beast going into the man strikes me as somewhat warg-like. The great wolf shadow in the tent stands out too and I've never been sure what to make of it. Is this an old gods resurrection that fails because Drogo isn't a warg? In Bran's vision he seems to have a choice to wake or not-- to live or die. Why did Drogo come back a blank? Did Drogo choose not to live? Did MMD intentionally fail to guide him the way Bloodraven guides Bran? If it is old gods resurrection I would be inclined to go with Drogo not being a warg. Is there anything here that sheds light on a Bran/Lady/Sansa connection?

Sam also comments to Jon about the First Men history being written Maesters because the First Men only wrote in runes (since their history was recorded in the weirwoods.) Could the runes on the armor be a story or a song?

First off, Ragnorak, thank you for that analysis! I was one of those who missed the Lady/Bran thing in the books. Your Mirri Maz Durr theory is very interesting, so I decided to run with it for a bit... and follow it into crackpot land.

Well Mirri Maz Durr was quite prolific as a godswife, not only had she learned things from her mother but she also studied in Asshai, learned about the birthing songs of the moonsingers of the Jogos Nhai, the herb lore of the Dothraki and had some private lessons with Maester Marwyn, who is interested in the occult himself.

Him being so keen on spells and magic, not to mention healing, it seems only natural to me that before he set off on his adventures in Essos he learned whatever there was to learn about the magic of the First Men and the CotF, no? The Citadel would have been the best place to do that, since Maesters wrote the history of the first men and could read runes. We may be venturing a little too deep into crackpot territory but the blade was old, bronze, covered in runes and leaf shaped. It could conceivably be a relic from the CotF. (Perhaps one that was kept in the Citadel and "borrowed" by Marwin?).

Anyway I think it would be an interesting development for the Old Gods' religion if they had a ressurrection ritual (like the R'hllor). This could mean interesting things for Bran as well, especially if he can bring Jon back... but would this mean Ghost has to die?

Sorry to go off topic, and happy anniversary, PtP thread! Thank you to everyone who participates, you guys are awesome and in my short while here I've had the pleasure of not only reading some of the most compelling and intelligent posts in the forum but also of "internet-meeting" some really special people :) so here's to you! http://i.imgur.com/tyypO.gif

[Lyanna Stark]

You old ladies with your Sandor Syndrome. I don't know **shakes head**.

Oh I know what you know, Septon Meribald. You want everyone to wear hair shirts and preach peace and faith in the Riverlands, while prancing over the meadows. Alternatively, to consider Tywin's "harsh lessons". ;)

(Consider this in the meantime: rejection of learnt behaviour, Sansa vs Tyrion, where Tyrion rejects Tywin's "harsh lessons" when he refuses to rape a second wife, and Sansa manages to reject Septa Mordane's "all men are beautiful". Their entire marriage is one big rejection. )

[KittensRuleBeetsDrool]

Happy, happy, happy birthday to the P2P threads! :cheers: They have done so much to enrich my readings and re-readings of all the books and other characters, not just Sansa! And the thread is full of nice level-headed intelligent people, too. :)

HAPPY BIRTHDAY THREAD!!!!!

I'm kinda rooting for Dany/Daario anymore. I admit. It's Troll Bronn. I didn't like really like him, but didn't really care if Dany had a boy toy. But some of the anti-Dany/Daario things have been so silly/stupid it makes me root for it in spite.

Me too! :lol: I don't really like Daario, but c'mon, he's not the font of all evil, or even LF. Dany is a teenager who has been married since she was 13. She can have a little fun, sheesh!

That is such an interesting theory on Lady giving her life for Bran's...thank you, Ragnorak! I hadn't thought of it before but now it makes a lot of sense even if it is not stated outright. I wonder if we will find out more in the next two or more books...