Theories you simply don't believe

[Belandra Waters]

The point of the three Kingsguard in that case was to prevent anyone learning where the child had been sent to. Which sort of meant keeping the mortally ill Lyanna from talking to someone like, say, her brother.

I've wondered if it is possible that it was Lyanna who was at Starfall. Perhaps she had been moved there after Rhaegar left for KL, in order to ensure access to a maester/midwife and a wetnurse.

Since one of the popular theories is that Ashara is the one who informed Ned of the location of the ToJ, that would necessitate him stopping at Starfall first. Ned finds a dying Lyanna, who begs him to find Jon and raise him as his own. After Lyanna's death, Ned then travels to the ToJ to collect his nephew but the KG refuse to let Ned have him. It makes more sense to me that this is a battle that everyone is prepared to fight to the death.

As to why Jon may have been moved to the ToJ. perhaps the KG were worried that Starfall was no longer a secure location, they were worried about Lyanna's illness being contagious, etc.

I do find it interesting that we are never told explicitly that Ned entered the tower and found Lyanna and/or Jon inside it.

[TheWizard]

anything that has to do with a ice dragon or a dragon from winterfell. It just seems to cheesey and dumb to me

[Techelles]

anything that has to do with a ice dragon or a dragon from winterfell. It just seems to cheesey and dumb to me

If we're talking literally, I agree.

But then there's Jon Snow.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

If we're talking literally, I agree.

But then there's Jon Snow.

Yes, same. I don't think a literal icy dragon is going to shoot up out of Winterfell. But if there's an "ice dragon" symbolism somewhere, then that's Jon, yes.

[TheWizard]

Yes, same. I don't think a literal icy dragon is going to shoot up out of Winterfell. But if there's an "ice dragon" symbolism somewhere, then that's Jon, yes.

If we're talking literally, I agree.

But then there's Jon Snow.

Of course that makes total sense and i agree with that. I just don't like the theories of a real dragon thats not Danys being in winterfell , under the wall or anything like that. It pisses me off. Also i hate the theory that theres a magical connection to the whole "there must always be a stark in winterfell" . Bran and Rickon left a long time ago and nothing happened. Magic being involved in the downfall of Roose in the castle would feel like a cop out. I want Roose to get whats coming to him by a living person.

[Dogpile]

Damn it! Totally missed BF had a thing for Minisa. Back to the book, again!

I thought I was on to something when I noticed Tom O'Sevens saying he wasn't welcome at Riverrun since he sang the "floppy fish" song about the son of Lord Hoster Tully.

Even worse for my theory, BF is not the son of Lord Hoster Tully. He's his brother. The song was about Edmure Tully. Details, details. Is It a sign of trouble that you spend half your waking hours trying to puzzle these things out?

[rmholt]

I can think of four.

The Hound bringing Arya to the twins disguised as a farmer

The alchemist meeting pate.

The Liddle meeting Bran.

The HM meeting Theon

HM meeting Theon doesnt count. he isnt known and he isnt known to be important.

Now we are down to three, and we know to count 1, 2, 3, many. So three is not "many".

They are like tapestries. Once you start paying attention they are everywhere.

[rmholt]

Theory I dont believe: Valyrian steel is dragonsteel.

If for no other reason than Dragonsteel fought off the Others 8000 years ago. I am not sure Valyrian steel had even been invented yet and the people on Westeros were the First Men and the Children of the Forest IIRC. The Andals were millenia from coming over.

[Scipio Africanus]

Theory I dont believe: Valyrian steel is dragonsteel.

If for no other reason than Dragonsteel fought off the Others 8000 years ago. I am not sure Valyrian steel had even been invented yet and the people on Westeros were the First Men and the Children of the Forest IIRC. The Andals were millenia from coming over.

Valyrian steel is more then just high quality steel. From the little we got to read about it, the process involved spells. Now that still doesn't prove anything but it doesn't exclude Valyrian steel being able to kill Others just as well as obsidian does.

[Techelles]

Of course that makes total sense and i agree with that. I just don't like the theories of a real dragon thats not Danys being in winterfell , under the wall or anything like that. It pisses me off. Also i hate the theory that theres a magical connection to the whole "there must always be a stark in winterfell" . Bran and Rickon left a long time ago and nothing happened. Magic being involved in the downfall of Roose in the castle would feel like a cop out. I want Roose to get whats coming to him by a living person.

I agree about Roose. It would be even better if justice were done by someone whom Roose personally betrayed. Tywin organized the RW, but it was Tyrion who killed him. Joffrey killed Ned, but LF and QoT took him out. So the wicked are punished, but not always by the right people. The most satisfying so far was Jon beheading Slynt.

On the other hand, I would be sufficiently content if Roose were to be killed by Ramsay.

[therealbando]

Howland Reed will save Jon`s life, like he saved Ned`s life at ToJ and then he will reveal the identity of Jon`s parents (Rheagar and Lyanna)

[redriver]

HM meeting Theon doesnt count. he isnt known and he isnt known to be important.

Now we are down to three, and we know to count 1, 2, 3, many. So three is not "many".

They are like tapestries. Once you start paying attention they are everywhere.

I would say that the HM is significant because he has a speaking role and because we don't know who he is.He is by definition a "stranger".

The Hound can be dismissed because we know who he is,although he is behaving according to the Stranger archetype in this part of the story.

The Alchemist can also be dismissed because we are given a description which matches exactly with the last description of Jaqen H'gar.

The Liddle cannot be dismissed because he doesn't name himself,nor is he described.Bran makes a guess as to his identity.

You may be right in that there are other examples of characters conforming to the Stranger archetype within the story,but as far as we,the readers are concerned, there are only two "Strangers",the Liddle and the HM,who I suggest are the same person.

[rmholt]

Valyrian steel is more then just high quality steel. From the little we got to read about it, the process involved spells. Now that still doesn't prove anything but it doesn't exclude Valyrian steel being able to kill Others just as well as obsidian does.

I tend to think Valyrian Steel will be as effective at killing Others as obsidian :)

[rmholt]

I would say that the HM is significant because he has a speaking role and because we don't know who he is.He is by definition a "stranger".

The Hound can be dismissed because we know who he is,although he is behaving according to the Stranger archetype in this part of the story.

The Alchemist can also be dismissed because we are given a description which matches exactly with the last description of Jaqen H'gar.

The Liddle cannot be dismissed because he doesn't name himself,nor is he described.Bran makes a guess as to his identity.

You may be right in that there are other examples of characters conforming to the Stranger archetype within the story,but as far as we,the readers are concerned, there are only two "Strangers",the Liddle and the HM,who I suggest are the same person.

Not the Stranger archetype. There is one and the HM may be part of it (representing death approaching Theon and then passing him by)

There are a lot of hooded men without other significance is what I meant. Not Hooded Men or Strangers or any archetype. The HM could be just a hooded man.

[redriver]

Of course that makes total sense and i agree with that. I just don't like the theories of a real dragon thats not Danys being in winterfell , under the wall or anything like that. It pisses me off. Also i hate the theory that theres a magical connection to the whole "there must always be a stark in winterfell" . Bran and Rickon left a long time ago and nothing happened. Magic being involved in the downfall of Roose in the castle would feel like a cop out. I want Roose to get whats coming to him by a living person.

I'm a proponent of the idea that the phrase "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" has a magical connection,but I don't see how this debars Roose from getting justice served to him by a living person?

Not the Stranger archetype. There is one and the HM may be part of it (representing death approaching Theon and then passing him by)

There are a lot of hooded men without other significance is what I meant. Not Hooded Men or Strangers or any archetype. The HM could be just a hooded man.

You are missing my point.The Hooded Man is certainly a hooded man,but he is also a stranger.He is not identified or described.This only occurs twice in the whole series of books,unless you can correct me.

I suggest we take this debate to a HM thread,-plenty of those in the ADWD section.

On the subject of "believing" theories,I don't believe any,including my own.This isn't science,it's an interpretation of an ongoing fantasy story.I can say I have high expectations for certain theories,high hopes for others,but belief never comes into it.

[LadyMary]

Of course that makes total sense and i agree with that. I just don't like the theories of a real dragon thats not Danys being in winterfell , under the wall or anything like that. It pisses me off. Also i hate the theory that theres a magical connection to the whole "there must always be a stark in winterfell" . Bran and Rickon left a long time ago and nothing happened. Magic being involved in the downfall of Roose in the castle would feel like a cop out. I want Roose to get whats coming to him by a living person.

I understand your emotion, but there's no reason Bolton's downfall won't come at the hands of a person who is doing justice for the Starks... if everyone else thinks its due to a curse, so much the better.

[Brandon the Shipwright]

R+L=J

Dany not being a real Targ

Faegon being the actual Prince Aegon.

[Nick Baratheon]

Jojenpaste

Half the population of Westeros being secret Targs. They're Dragons, not mushrooms, popping out everywhere after a summer rain...

Benjen Stark is not Coldhands. He only has cold hands now...

Tyrion killing Cersey. The Imp is no kinslayer!

Dany sitting the Iron Throne. Never ever!!!

..........You haven´t read ASOS yet, have you?

[Cheshire Rat]

This thread disturbed me a bit. I didn't know there were theories about some of this stuff. I read this thread constantly asking myself," is that a thing? Why is that a thing?" (This is mostly in regards to the Doran pedophile theory.) But theories I don't believe have pretty much already been covered. Like:

1. Jojen paste

2. A+J=T - I really, really dislike that one

And this isn't really a theory, but I get annoyed when people ask if the WOIAF app can be trusted. I mean I'm new and I know that from reading the threads.

[The Raven's Teeth]

i don't believe oberyn poisoned tywin, but why do people think coldhands isn't benjen? just because that would be too predictable? maybe for george on this occasion the most unpredictable thing to do is be predictable, lol, i dunno, it just that the argument, "benjen being coldhands is too predictable", to me, doesn't cut it, i need more evidence

Personally I don't believe that theory (that Coldhands is Benjen) because the Children of the Forest say that the wights can't kill Coldhands because they killed him 'long ago'. Long ago (in my opinion) to a race as long lived as the Children wouldn't be someone who died two/three years ago.