Theories you simply don't believe

[Éadaoin]

No need to read it. It goes like that: Naked children are playing in his pool. He is watching naked children. He wears a blancket. He is a pedophile. End of story.

I thought the person who made that thread was trolling. Or at least, I hope they were?

[Ladylance]

Oh, just to add, I don't believe anyone is warging into the black cat in the red keep. (Or anything else that far away from them for that matter).

Edited for clarity.

[jarl the climber]

A lot of people think that there will be another Red Wedding at Riverrun this time with the Lannisters and the Fryes being on the receiving end. I would cheer if it did, no one deserves it more but I do not think it will happen. Something will come out of Tom o' Sevens being at Riverrun but not that.

These two. The Doran theory is nothing more than a brain fart.

I also don't believe Roose Bolton is any kind of undead/immortal/vampire.

Doran being a pedophilwe is a shit theory. The guy pretty much admits that watching the children helps him keep things in perspective. He knows that if he goes to war many of these children or their parents could die and that he owes to them to only fight wars that he can win at an acceptable cost. Even though his own desires are different for personal reasons.

I think something is up with Roose but not that he is an immortal vampire guy.

[Twinslayer]

I suspect Rhaegar married Lyanna and Jon is his legitimate son. That said, if Rhaegar didn't do this, and Jon is just his illegitimate child, I still feel that that's sufficient cause for the Kingsguard to stay around. I've always pointed out that the fact is that the three Kingsguard were not going to make a massive difference for Viserys and Queen Rhaella at that time, that they had high strong walls, and a fleet, and guards, and so on. Whether legitimate or not, Jon would be of the royal blood, and was far more exposed than Viserys would be at the same time. Out of duty to their vows (the vows that include obedience) and, frankly, respect for Rhaegar and just general chivalric honor, it just makes sense that they'd defend even a bastard boy who had no other defenders.

And then when Lyanna was clearly dying, I don't know, I'd like to think the likes of Ser Gerold Hightower and the Sword of the Morning wouldn't just shrug their shoulders and leave her to it, when Rhaegar asked that they protect her. Even if she wasn't Rhaegar's wife.

From ADwD:

Aerys dispatched Kingsguard knights to serve and defend Rhaegar; we know this clearly from the fact that Whent ran errands for Rhaegar at Harrenhal, that Dayne was almost certainly his sworn shield, and that Whent and Dayne were missing from the war and were basically with Rhaegar. At that point, their vow to protect and obey extended to him, and to whoever else he said they extended to, whether it was his second wife and son, or his lover and his bastard, or just his lover. No "going rogue" needed here. Barristan's words are almost tailor-made to explaining why Martin explained that the question of why they fought was due to orders that Rhaegar gave them weeks before he died rather than just saying it was their vows.

It does come down to their vows at the end, and certainly those orders gained more force if they recognized Jon as Rhaegar's heir, but either way... "Orders."

Ran, you are absolutely right about the KG vows.

Allow me to add just a couple of quotes to demonstrate that the "vow" Ser Gerold Hightower references at the TOJ may be the vow to obey Rhaegar rather than a vow to protect the "king."

From Jaime's POV is ASOS:

Jaime: "Here, show me where it is in our vows that we swear to beat women and children."

Meryn Trant: "I did as His Grace commanded me. We are sworn to obey."

Or from Jaime's POV in AFFC (when Jaime objects to staying in King's Landing on Rhaegar's orders):

Ser Jon Darry: "When you donned that cloak, you promised to obey."

I could go on, but the point is that (1) the KG swear multiple vows, not just a vow to protect the king, (2) one of those vows is to obey orders, (3) in the case of Aerys' KG at least, the vow of obedience extended to orders from Rhaegar, and (4) as your quote from ADWD establishes, KG protection can be extended to mistresses and bastards.

[jon stark I]

I don't believe R+L=J.I don't want to believe it.

I don't beleve Robbwind or Lannister children being Targeryan.

I don't beleve Jon and Dany rode their dragons to sunset with holding hands.

I don't believe Sansa will let Sweetrobin poisoned.

I do believe Frey pies they seem delicious.

[The Manhood-Eating Goat]

I don't think Doran being a paedophile is a theory so much as it's a trolling vehicle

Edit: I completely missed the post by Éadaoin at the top of this page saying exactly the same thing. So I guess this is pretty redundant. Yeah.

[Ludd]

1. I am doubtful about R+J =J because I think Martin has CHANGED HIS MIND

2. I do not believe A+J=T

3. I do not believe Jojen paste

4. I do not believe Benjen is cold hands - I think he is Benjen Stark the Night King

5. I do not believe Blood raven is in league with the Others

6. I am certain there MUST be additional Targs out there - we KNOW of them - there is a son of "Egg" that must have the best claim to the throne - ahead even of Stannis - who is he and Where is he - or his descendents. He would have to be 70 year old or so but he may have had kids. There is also the feeble witted daughter of one of Eggs Brothers or uncles and most critically the son of mad, mean Aerion who also would be very old - 80+ but may well have had kids. Oh I have just has a mind numbing (chuckling) thought. The feeble witted daughter married a Stokeworth and is in fact Lolys's grandma (Lolys inherited her feeble wits). Lolys is the rightful Queen (ahead EVEN of Dany and Aegon). Bronn becomes King! Oh Ha!

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Oberyn poisoned Tywin... :ack:

I did notice widow's wail and stuff but I never believed it.

[Jon Sn0w]

they are all interesting theories, but they are all just theories. So i don't believe in any of them. Until it is written by the man himself.

[LyrnaSnowBunnyAvenger]

Ned raped Lyanna.

huh? I don't think I've seen this crackpot theory before ever, granted I'm pretty new. No way, no how that happened.

[Lady Green]

6. I am certain there MUST be additional Targs out there - we KNOW of them - there is a son of "Egg" that must have the best claim to the throne - ahead even of Stannis - who is he and Where is he - or his descendents. He would have to be 70 year old or so but he may have had kids. There is also the feeble witted daughter of one of Eggs Brothers or uncles and most critically the son of mad, mean Aerion who also would be very old - 80+ but may well have had kids. Oh I have just has a mind numbing (chuckling) thought. The feeble witted daughter married a Stokeworth and is in fact Lolys's grandma (Lolys inherited her feeble wits). Lolys is the rightful Queen (ahead EVEN of Dany and Aegon). Bronn becomes King! Oh Ha!

This is so brilliant I might have to start bellieving it.

[janedl]

I don't believe that any prophecies are "true." They become true when the people who hear them are influenced to act in a way that brings them about.

[JaegrM]

Syrio is dead and was never a FM

There is no Theon Durden

Dany will remain sane for the rest of the series

[Beltway]

Somehow I don't believe that, had Rhaegar ordered them to make a lot of apricot jam ("because I love it, that's why!"), they'd keep making it even after his death, simply ignoring the entire Targaryen dynasty.

Tell me your joking

[Dementia]

In my view, GRRM answered the question without answering the question. I do believe that Prince Rhaegar gave them an order that never conflicted with their vows to protect the king. When he initially left the tower, I do believe that Rhaegar told the Kingsguard to protect a pregnant Lyanna, and they were well within their vows to do so--considering Jaime was still at the Red Keep protecting Aerys. When they discovered that Aerys, Rhaegar, and Aegon were dead, I believe that Jon was already born and therefore the new king. They stayed, adhering to both their vows--to protect the king--and the order they received from Rhaegar--to protect Lyanna and her child. That is the only thing that makes sense to me at this point, and nothing that I believe conflicts with anything stated by GRRM.

Not really knowing Rhaegar, but knowing Viserion...I could see Rhaegar thinking "screw that snotty little brat brother, protect my son!"

The interesting part would just be the idea that "orders" take presidence over "vows".

[FooFighterDDS]

Ran and others,

You mentioned earlier that you believe Jon was at Starfall not at the ToJ to prevent him from getting Lyanna's illness. Could you point out the clues that would suggest this? It makes sense but I've never heard about it before now.

I assumed that Ned and company went to Starfall and were told about the location of the ToJ then returned to bring back Dawn and pay respects

Thanks

[ladyofslytherin]

you people are amateurs when it comes to skepticism.

ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

You are snarky. I like you.

[Frey family reunion]

Ran and others,

You mentioned earlier that you believe Jon was at Starfall not at the ToJ to prevent him from getting Lyanna's illness. Could you point out the clues that would suggest this? It makes sense but I've never heard about it before now.

I assumed that Ned and company went to Starfall and were told about the location of the ToJ then returned to bring back Dawn and pay respects

Thanks

Illness? I didn't realize dying during childbirth was contagious.

[Pinkie Baelish]

OH LOL DORAN SAYS HE LOVES KIDS HE MUST BE A PEDO LOLOLOLOLOL

No, I never got the impression of Doran ever being a pedophile.

[Pinkie Baelish]

I personally think (or maybe hope) that the reason the Blackfish didn't marry is because he believes in true love and just hasn't met the right woman yet.

Or because marriage might prevent him from being such a badass all the time.