Dany Is Going To Surprise A Lot Of People

[Dolorous Nedd]

I have seen so many members on this forum bash Dany that I thought it would be worthwhile to have a thread defending her a little bit.

First of all the notion of her becoming the main antagonist is pretty far fetched when one considers she has a good heart. No question some of things she has tried to do have backfired, but she is young and still learning. Given her young age and naivety she had no way of knowing that freeing all of the slaves would have the unforeseen consequences that resulted. No question she has learned plenty from that.

I also happen to believe that Dany's journey into the wilderness with Drogon is something that was needed for her to find herself. The chances are high she will come back with a much different perspective than she had before. It seems likely the lack of self confidence that kept her in Mereen for so long will be gone, so she can finally move forward.

There is little question the biggest X factor for Dany will be whether or not Tyrion ends being an adviser to her. As we all know he would have the ability to set her on the right track very quickly. All of the assumptions I have seen on this forum about her being perceived as some kind of joke will be gone if she allows Tyrion to help her.

In short we do not have enough information to know how her character will evolve. All I'm saying is what we have seen so far is probably very little indication of what her actions will be in the coming books. I'm not saying she will it on the Iron Throne, but she will play an important and useful role.

[Stannis Gotta Stan]

I have seen so many members on this forum bash Dany that I thought it would be worthwhile to have a thread defending her a little bit.

First of all the notion of her becoming the main antagonist is pretty far fetched when one considers she has a good heart. No question some of things she has tried to do have backfired, but she is young and still learning. Given her young age and naivety she had no way of knowing that freeing all of the slaves would have the unforeseen consequences that resulted. No question she has learned plenty from that.

I also happen to believe that Dany's journey into the wilderness with Drogon is something that was needed for her to find herself. The chances are high she will come back with a much different perspective than she had before. It seems likely the lack of self confidence that kept her in Mereen for so long will be gone, so she can finally move forward.

There is little question the biggest X factor for Dany will be whether or not Tyrion ends being an adviser to her. As we all know he would have the ability to set her on the right track very quickly. All of the assumptions I have seen on this forum about her being perceived as some kind of joke will be gone if she allows Tyrion to help her.

In short we do not have enough information to know how her character will evolve. All I'm saying is what we have seen so far is probably very little indication of what her actions will be in the coming books. I'm not saying she will it on the Iron Throne, but she will play an important and useful role.

you disagreeing with it doesent make it "far fetched".

Also... What on earth indicates Tyrion will be a "GOOD" influence on Dany? At this point in the story TYrion is a hateful little man who only lives for revenge... Hes mentally unstable, has recently murdered his father and ex lover, has been threatening and abusing slaves. You dont think hes going to try and use DAny to get the revenge he wants? Lets not forget the very suspicious advice he gave to Aegon that caused him to change his plans...

I cant see Tyrion being anything but a toxic influence on DAny, even when he was very likable in the first few books he was never what you would call a "good" person, now that all he really lives for is the chance at vengeance I dont see him being able to leave a positive mark on Dany... and I am almost positive Selmy is going to hate him.

[Fat Mac]

Well, there really aren't any "protagonists" or "antagonists." But, when she does come to Westeros, and she does bring her "blood and fire," then she will probably be despised by the majority of the main characters, therefore making her an antagonist to many.

[Dolorous Nedd]

you disagreeing with it doesent make it "far fetched".

Also... What on earth indicates Tyrion will be a "GOOD" influence on Dany? At this point in the story TYrion is a hateful little man who only lives for revenge... Hes mentally unstable, has recently murdered his father and ex lover, has been threatening and abusing slaves. You dont think hes going to try and use DAny to get the revenge he wants? Lets not forget the very suspicious advice he gave to Aegon that caused him to change his plans...

I cant see Tyrion being anything but a toxic influence on DAny, even when he was very likable in the first few books he was never what you would call a "good" person, now that all he really lives for is the chance at vengeance I dont see him being able to leave a positive mark on Dany... and I am almost positive Selmy is going to hate him.

Your take on Tyrion is awfully harsh. I happen to believe the Tyrion we saw with Jon at the Wall is the real Tyrion. We'll see I guess.

[Toccs]

Dany is her father's daughter and her story echoes his. Starting out as a competent and good ruler but devolving into paranoia, bitterness and madness.

All the layers that made Dany that sweet, kind hearted girl she was at the start of the story have been and are being stripped away to reveal what is really at her core, Fire and Blood.

The wife of the brave Khal - gone up in flames

The freer of slaves - backfired badly and took down an entire civilization with it.

the cultural reformer - turns out they didn't want any of it.

All she has left is her identity as "rightful heir to the Iron Throne" and when she arrives in Westeros to see that they already have a "Targaryen" King who is ahead of her in the line of succession and is already married to Arianne, . . .well . . . Fire and Blood indeed.

[Dolorous Nedd]

Well, there really aren't any "protagonists" or "antagonists." But, when she does come to Westeros, and she does bring her "blood and fire," then she will probably be despised by the majority of the main characters, therefore making her an antagonist to many.

I guess I'm talking about how people reading the books will see her. We have all of the information to be able to judge fairly. No question the Lannisters will hate her!

[Lady's Secret]

I don't get all the Dany hate either. I think Martin is just trying to be realistic about how great leaders come about. Heroes aren't born, their forged through experiance. Dany's learning from trial and error with no training to prepare her for her current position. And she a teenager! I think she's done preaty good all things considering. When she comes back on Drogon, she will have to prove if she has learned anything and can rise to the occasion or not.

Honestly, I laughed the first time I read about Dany being the main antagonist at the end of the series. Look at how she treats her hostages in ADWD. All hugs and kisses. I find it hard to believe she will turn into the kind of person to go all scorched earth on everyone. That wouldn't be bittersweet to me, just bitter.

I don't see the madness that many see either. What's wrong with her saying "fire and blood" all the time? They are her words afterall. How many times have we heard "winters coming"? Also, your not paranoid if people really are trying to kill you. :)

I don't know if Tyrion will be good for Dany or not. I guess it all comes down to Tyrion and if he really wants to live and return to Casterly Rock someday. Then giving Dany good council really is in his best interest. How Tyrion gets into a position to give Dany council is something I really want to read.

I think she will suprise Arianne the most.

[Stannis Gotta Stan]

Your take on Tyrion is awfully harsh. I happen to believe the Tyrion we saw with Jon at the Wall is the real Tyrion. We'll see I guess.

that jovial tyrion who liked nothing better then lounging around, whoring and making witty quips is gone. (I LIKED early Tyrion btw)

but current Tyrion? His family is dead to him, he actively seeks there deaths, hes now a true outcast and is reviled as a kinslayer in the 7 kingdoms. Everything he does now is about how he will get his revenge... thats a toxic personality...

Not to mention he wasnt exactly a master statesman even before things went to shit for him. He was an awful hand who got out smarted by vary's, and despite his trick with the chain... he would have lost kings landing if his father and the Tyrells hadnt shown up at the last minute.

I really dont see how Tyrion would be able to change anything positively for DAny

[Lady of Dragonstone]

you disagreeing with it doesent make it "far fetched".

Also... What on earth indicates Tyrion will be a "GOOD" influence on Dany? At this point in the story TYrion is a hateful little man who only lives for revenge... Hes mentally unstable, has recently murdered his father and ex lover, has been threatening and abusing slaves. You dont think hes going to try and use DAny to get the revenge he wants? Lets not forget the very suspicious advice he gave to Aegon that caused him to change his plans...

I cant see Tyrion being anything but a toxic influence on DAny, even when he was very likable in the first few books he was never what you would call a "good" person, now that all he really lives for is the chance at vengeance I dont see him being able to leave a positive mark on Dany... and I am almost positive Selmy is going to hate him.

From personal experience, I can empathize with Tyrion's character quite a bit. His actions were wrong, but his father had been cruel to him his entire life. Calling him hateful and mentally unstable is being extremely harsh as Dolorous Nedd said, and it's a matter of opinion. I think it goes without saying that Tyrion will try to exact revenge using Dany, but you can't "USE" someone who is perfectly willing to go along with your plans. I don't see Cersei standing aside to allow Dany to take the Throne, so obviously Dany would eliminate her and her supporters. Tyrion and Dany are on the same team now. Whether you like it or not, it's true. Tyrion can advise her on the plans and tactics of the armies she will be facing in Westeros, he has tons of knowledge about dragons, culture, people, etc. Yes, he has a bad attitude and a chip on his shoulder, but he could help her in a lot of ways that not many people can.

Dany is her father's daughter and her story echoes his. Starting out as a competent and good ruler but devolving into paranoia, bitterness and madness.

I think I would watch my back too, if several people had hired assassins to try and murder me. :dunno:

[Fat Mac]

I guess I'm talking about how people reading the books will see her. We have all of the information to be able to judge fairly. No question the Lannisters will hate her!

I should have elaborated. Many fans like the characters in Westeros better than Dany. This means, if Dany is an antagonist to these characters, they will be an antagonist to the fans that like said characters.

[franko99]

Your take on Tyrion is awfully harsh. I happen to believe the Tyrion we saw with Jon at the Wall is the real Tyrion. We'll see I guess.

So you still judge characters for what they were in the first book? Is Sansa a naive girl, Jaime a scumbag and oathbreaker, Arya a sweet sympathetic girl?

Even in GOT Tyrion wasn't always Mr. nice guy, and he has gone a dark path ever since

I guess I'm talking about how people reading the books will see her. We have all of the information to be able to judge fairly. No question the Lannisters will hate her!

We're reading the books as much as you do, and some of us may not agree with your point of view. A lot of people like and sympathize with other characters, to them she will be an "antagonist", just like Lannister were the "antagonist" to the Starks in the Wot5K.

[Toccs]

I think I would watch my back too, if several people had hired assassins to try and murder me. :dunno:

Same applies to Aerys, Lord Darklyn kidnapped and imprisoned him, Rhaegar was plotting against him, Stark/Baratheon/Arryn and Tully were forming a super alliance against him. Does any of that lessen his madness? Same for Dany.

[Stannis Gotta Stan]

I don't get all the Dany hate either. I think Martin is just trying to be realistic about how great leaders come about. Heroes aren't born, their forged through experiance. Dany's learning from trial and error with no training to prepare her for her current position. And she a teenager! I think she's done preaty good all things considering. When she comes back on Drogon, she will have to prove if she has learned anything and can rise to the occasion or not.

Honestly, I laughed the first time I read about Dany being the main antagonist at the end of the series. Look at how she treats her hostages in ADWD. All hugs and kisses. I find it hard to believe she will turn into the kind of person to go all scorched earth on everyone. That wouldn't be bittersweet to me, just bitter.

I don't see the madness that many see either. What's wrong with her saying "fire and blood" all the time? They are her words afterall. How many times have we heard "winters coming"? Also, your not paranoid if people really are trying to kill you. :)

I don't know if Tyrion will be good for Dany or not. I guess it all comes down to Tyrion and if he really wants to live and return to Casterly Rock someday. Then giving Dany good council really is in his best interest. How Tyrion gets into a position to give Dany council is something I really want to read.

I think she will suprise Arianne the most.

really? Did you forget all the people she crucified? Or how she ordered the murder of every man in astapor who wore a certain type of dress? How she ordered the torture of a merchants daughters? How she ordered people to pay fines for the crime of not remembering an ex slaves name? Shes not some innocent child, she has more blood on her hands then most.

Madness runs in her family, she was also abused as a child then sold to a much older man who raped her, she then contemplated suicide for a time... add that with a deep seated sense of entitlement...

I will be shocked if she doesent go batty with the background she has... The road to hell is paved with good intentions as they say... and DAny seems like the type who will do whatever it takes to get what she believes is her "right"... Add the fact that she has dragons which are and well... we have a disturbed child with what amounts to medieval WMDs... She seems like shes being set up to take the plunge off the deep end

[otherbeef]

really? Did you forget all the people she crucified? Or how she ordered the murder of every man in astapor who wore a certain type of dress? How she ordered the torture of a merchants daughters? How she ordered people to pay fines for the crime of not remembering an ex slaves name? Shes not some innocent child, she has more blood on her hands then most.

i know this has been argued to death, but really the slavers brought their fates upon themselves by crucifying children and slaving. the torture was not a good look though i have to agree.

[Stannis Gotta Stan]

From personal experience, I can empathize with Tyrion's character quite a bit. His actions were wrong, but his father had been cruel to him his entire life. Calling him hateful and mentally unstable is being extremely harsh as Dolorous Nedd said, and it's a matter of opinion. I think it goes without saying that Tyrion will try to exact revenge using Dany, but you can't "USE" someone who is perfectly willing to go along with your plans. I don't see Cersei standing aside to allow Dany to take the Throne, so obviously Dany would eliminate her and her supporters. Tyrion and Dany are on the same team now. Whether you like it or not, it's true. Tyrion can advise her on the plans and tactics of the armies she will be facing in Westeros, he has tons of knowledge about dragons, culture, people, etc. Yes, he has a bad attitude and a chip on his shoulder, but he could help her in a lot of ways that not many people can.

I think I would watch my back too, if several people had hired assassins to try and murder me. :dunno:

He ordered the murder of a certain bard long before the shit really hit the fan... He armed the hill tribes so they could rape and plunder the small folk of the vale... And Tyrion still lived a pampered life and was well educated and never was want for gold... Boo hoo, his daddy didnt love him enough, even with that Tyrion had a better upbringing then 99.9999% of westeros had.

[Mace Cooterian]

I cant see Tyrion being anything but a toxic influence on DAny, even when he was very likable in the first few books he was never what you would call a "good" person, now that all he really lives for is the chance at vengeance I dont see him being able to leave a positive mark on Dany... and I am almost positive Selmy is going to hate him.

What makes you think that Selmy will hate Tyrion? Just because he is a Lannister?

[Mace Cooterian]

Dany is her father's daughter and her story echoes his. Starting out as a competent and good ruler but devolving into paranoia, bitterness and madness.

All the layers that made Dany that sweet, kind hearted girl she was at the start of the story have been and are being stripped away to reveal what is really at her core, Fire and Blood.

The wife of the brave Khal - gone up in flames

The freer of slaves - backfired badly and took down an entire civilization with it.

the cultural reformer - turns out they didn't want any of it.

All she has left is her identity as "rightful heir to the Iron Throne" and when she arrives in Westeros to see that they already have a "Targaryen" King who is ahead of her in the line of succession and is already married to Arianne, . . .well . . . Fire and Blood indeed.

@Toccs.

What are you thinking in terms of the Fire and Blood with regards to (f)Aegon? A Second Dance of the Dragons?

[Toccs]

@Toccs.

What are you thinking in terms of the Fire and Blood with regards to (f)Aegon? A Second Dance of the Dragons?

Well I don't think Dany will just happily set aside her ambition for the Throne and say "go on nephew it's yours by right.".

[Stannis Gotta Stan]

i know this has been argued to death, but really the slavers brought their fates upon themselves by crucifying children and slaving. the torture was not a good look though i have to agree.

So will Dany be punishing the Dothraki soon? I mean they are slavers who raped and pillaged innocent villages, hell Drogo was doing it to raise money FOR dany. I mean her bloodriders almost certainly were involved in catching these slaves in the first place, why do they get honored positions but the slavers of astapor deserve to die?

Dany's "justice" seems incredibly arbitrary, "slavers I like and know are ok, slavers I dont know deserve death!"

[Stannis Gotta Stan]

What makes you think that Selmy will hate Tyrion? Just because he is a Lannister?

correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Selmy didnt like schemers like LF and Vary's, Tyrion is the same type of schemer, hes just not nearly as good at it as Vary's and LF are. Not to mention the "imp" didnt exactly have a good reputation before SElmy left. Also the way Selmy is obsessed with honor... how do you think he will feel about a "kinslayer"?