Dany Is Going To Surprise A Lot Of People

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

really? Did you forget all the people she crucified? Or how she ordered the murder of every man in astapor who wore a certain type of dress? How she ordered the torture of a merchants daughters? How she ordered people to pay fines for the crime of not remembering an ex slaves name? Shes not some innocent child, she has more blood on her hands then most.

Madness runs in her family, she was also abused as a child then sold to a much older man who raped her, she then contemplated suicide for a time... add that with a deep seated sense of entitlement...

I will be shocked if she doesent go batty with the background she has... The road to hell is paved with good intentions as they say... and DAny seems like the type who will do whatever it takes to get what she believes is her "right"... Add the fact that she has dragons which are and well... we have a disturbed child with what amounts to medieval WMDs... She seems like shes being set up to take the plunge off the deep end

I am so sick of hearing about the people that she crucified. They were slavers who crucified children, they deserved more than that and she has less blood on her hands than Stannis, Tywin, Euron and Robb for certain. I have less of a problem with Dany claiming the throne as her right than I do with Stannis whining about his right, when technically he hasn't any proof that Cersei's children are not Roberts. Dany will do what she has to do in order to reign in Westeros and her wanting it and making it happen isn't any different and so far is much less brutal than males who are all vying for the throne.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I haven't forgotten anything. What Dany does to her enemies and what she does to those in her power are two different things. The difference is why I don't think she will become the force that everyone will have to ban together to stop. She's ruthless with her enemies and kind to her people. Isn't that necassary for any good leader? Please name a Lord Paramount or King that wasn't capable of violence to protect their people or further their cause. There are no inocent players in the game of thrones and there are always casualties.

I often feel Dany is judged with our actual modern moral standards, and I guess that's why she's so often hated. Dany, when she decided to stay in Meereen and been a Queen, had to be exactly that, a Queen, a leader, in a very dangerous place, by herself. Dany might want to be loved and she was more than pleased to be called their "mother", but she also wants to bring justice to her people and to her enemies. Unlike our modern times, there is no trials in the lands she lives now (Essos, at least): justice is as simple as punishing people in the way they punish other. An eye for an eye. Also, she has to be seen as strong and powerful. She isn't yet in a position in which she can show mercy to others.

(Hi, first "serious" post).

[Mace Cooterian]

Yep, way too predictable from an artistic point of view. And also a lot of people seem to get too caught up in the whole politics of that world and think she has a right to rule Westeros just because her daddy did. (When Stannis is obviously the rightful king :P) And I'm kinda getting sick of this whole Beyond Good and Evil idea that morals don't exist (and no I'm not religious), if Dany kills hundreds of thousands of people just to get a throne then its evil. That's why that word was invented!

Just to be clear in my own humble option; I don't think Dany's story arc will end with her sitting the Iron Throne. I think she is exhibiting some Targ "madness" but at the end of ADWD, she is the one with (3) dragons. Whether she controls them or not.

My point of reference is to look at where the characters are at this point in time and making a judgement on where I think (predict/guess/whatever) they will end in the next book. Where I think she will end has no relevance to my own personal feelings and beliefs.

Edited to Add: Just because you want something to happen does not mean that GRRM will script as such.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I am so sick of hearing about the people that she crucified. They were slavers who crucified children, they deserved more than that and she has less blood on her hands than Stannis, Tywin, Euron and Robb for certain. I have less of a problem with Dany claiming the throne as her right than I do with Stannis whining about his right, when technically he hasn't any proof that Cersei's children are not Roberts. Dany will do what she has to do in order to reign in Westeros and her wanting it and making it happen isn't any different and so far is much less brutal than males who are all vying for the throne.

I'll ask this as many times as I have to before people finally wake up to this, but ... how does she KNOW that the people she crucified were actually the ones who killed the children?

She doesn't.

I'm equally sick of people waving off the people she crucified as if it was actual justice and not spiteful childish vengeance, so consider it a draw.

And something tells me that if you add up every person whose deaths she's been responsible for — I mean we're talking about the entire population of Astapor alone, never mind the people in the other cities — it'd be comparable to or in excess of those old mean men. And that's all before she's turned 18.

[Stannis Gotta Stan]

I am so sick of hearing about the people that she crucified. They were slavers who crucified children, they deserved more than that and she has less blood on her hands than Stannis, Tywin, Euron and Robb for certain. I have less of a problem with Dany claiming the throne as her right than I do with Stannis whining about his right, when technically he hasn't any proof that Cersei's children are not Roberts. Dany will do what she has to do in order to reign in Westeros and her wanting it and making it happen isn't any different and so far is much less brutal than males who are all vying for the throne.

tell me, why do those slavers deserve punishment but her dothraki followers, who are slavers and rapists dont? Dany and Drogo were fine with slavery when it was the way to get her kingdom back. Why are the astapor slavers deserving of death but DAny and her dothraki who practiced the same thing arent?

I remember DAny objecting to the rape of the lamb men... but does she object to the slavery? (I cant recall, plz quote) Just seems that slavery didnt deserve punishment when it was her people doing it in order to get her a throne, but it was wrong when somebody else did it.

If the astapor slavers deserve death, so do DAny's dothraki

[THE INDIGO]

You know what? She can do that if she wants. It's within her power. She can burn as much shit as she wants, kill as many people as she wants, destroy as much as she wants. Have at it, Dany.

What she cannot do is do all of that and then insist that she's some great heroic savior figure or Your Mom.

Oh I agree with you but in her head she will always see herself in that light. And no one is ever honest to her not even her.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

tell me, why do those slavers deserve punishment but her dothraki followers, who are slavers and rapists, Dany and Drogo were fine with slavery when it was the way to get her kingdom back. Why are the astapor slavers deserving of death but DAny and her dothraki who practiced the same thing arent?

Exactly. People. Dany is only against slavery when it benefits her to do so.

Need to pay for an army? Slavery's OK.

Need to not have to pay for an army? Slavery's not OK.

Need to make peace with the army outside your gate? Slavery's OK.

Need to build up a power base with a conquered city's pleb population? Slavery's not OK.

Need to fill up Meereen's coffers and dig bean ditches? Slavery's OK.

For fuck's sake, she's allowing people to sell themselves into slavery and making money off of it.

[Uncle Stannis]

You know what? She can do that if she wants. It's within her power. She can burn as much shit as she wants, kill as many people as she wants, destroy as much as she wants. Have at it, Dany.

What she cannot do is do all of that and then insist that she's some great heroic savior figure or Your Mom.

Your Mom made me lol. That is all.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

tell me, why do those slavers deserve punishment but her dothraki followers, who are slavers and rapists dont? Dany and Drogo were fine with slavery when it was the way to get her kingdom back. Why are the astapor slavers deserving of death but DAny and her dothraki who practiced the same thing arent?

I remember DAny objecting to the rape of the lamb men... but does she object to the slavery? (I cant recall, plz quote) Just seems that slavery didnt deserve punishment when it was her people doing it in order to get her a throne, but it was wrong when somebody else did it.

If the astapor slavers deserve death, so do DAny's dothraki

She was not fine with slavery with Drogo, tell me exactly how she was supposed to change him?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

She was not fine with slavery with Drogo, tell me exactly how she was supposed to change him?

Drogo was slaving for her benefit. To pay for her army and ships.

[Pyrrhus of Epirus]

I am so sick of hearing about the people that she crucified. They were slavers who crucified children, they deserved more than that and she has less blood on her hands than Stannis, Tywin, Euron and Robb for certain. I have less of a problem with Dany claiming the throne as her right than I do with Stannis whining about his right, when technically he hasn't any proof that Cersei's children are not Roberts. Dany will do what she has to do in order to reign in Westeros and her wanting it and making it happen isn't any different and so far is much less brutal than males who are all vying for the throne.

This made me curious. How do you guys think Dany will react to Aegon? And if she truly believes him fake, what proof could she possibly get? What proof would be enough? Stannis can't prove that Cersei's children are not her own, but Dany can't prove Aegon isn't Aegon simply because the kind of evidence you seem to expect doesn't exist in that time period. You can't bring Cersei on Murry and get read the DNA results.

[Uncle Stannis]

I think Jorah the Explorer, and *cough* slaver, being her most dedicated follower was a big early hint towards the fact that Dany really doesn't have any well thought out principles. She never grills him on it at all.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

I'll ask this as many times as I have to before people finally wake up to this, but ... how does she KNOW that the people she crucified were actually the ones who killed the children?

She doesn't.

I'm equally sick of people waving off the people she crucified as if it was actual justice and not spiteful childish vengeance, so consider it a draw.

And something tells me that if you add up every person whose deaths she's been responsible for — I mean we're talking about the entire population of Astapor alone, never mind the people in the other cities — it'd be comparable to or in excess of those old mean men. And that's all before she's turned 18.

It doesn't matter, it is war and they were wearing tokars, the slaver uniform. However many death she may be responsible for are a drop in the bucket compared to Stannis, Tywin, Robb and Euron.

[danm_999]

She was not fine with slavery with Drogo, tell me exactly how she was supposed to change him?

By not begging him to invade Westeros, thus eliminating the need for him to go hunting for Lhazareen slaves.

[Pyrrhus of Epirus]

It doesn't matter, it is war and they were wearing tokars, the slaver uniform. However many death she may be responsible for are a drop in the bucket compared to Stannis, Tywin, Robb and Euron.

I think if we counted up all the deaths that we can prove each character was responsible of and not just a hindsight situation, I think it'd be between Tywin and Dany. The sad part is, Dany is what? Fifteen?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

This made me curious. How do you guys think Dany will react to Aegon? And if she truly believes him fake, what proof could she possibly get? What proof would be enough? Stannis can't prove that Cersei's children are not her own, but Dany can't prove Aegon isn't Aegon simply because the kind of evidence you seem to expect doesn't exist in that time period. You can't bring Cersei on Murry and get read the DNA results.

I think this is exactly the event that's going to betray Dany for the flaming (no pun intended) hypocrite she really is. She was all about the law and legal rights and whatnot when it was the Baratheon line standing her way. So what will she do when Aegon comes into play? Does anyone at this point sincerely expect her to fall in line for her "nephew"? And as soon as she says, "I know he's fake because I saw a mummer's dragon in a Qartheen funhouse," she's just be another batshit crazy Targ trying to usurp the throne from and probably kill her own nephew.

I mean I think Aegon's faker than a Fendi bag sold out of a car trunk, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how this could easily play out.

[Uncle Stannis]

It doesn't matter, it is war and they were wearing tokars, the slaver uniform. However many death she may be responsible for are a drop in the bucket compared to Stannis, Tywin, Robb and Euron.

It is war is one of the easiest most stupid excuses for atrocities ever.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

I think if we counted up all the deaths that we can prove each character was responsible of and not just a hindsight situation, I think it'd be between Tywin and Dany. The sad part is, Dany is what? Fifteen?

Robb was the same age.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

It doesn't matter, it is war and they were wearing tokars, the slaver uniform. However many death she may be responsible for are a drop in the bucket compared to Stannis, Tywin, Robb and Euron.

So you're saying that nearly the entire population of Astapor, everyone who's died in Qarth, Yunkish forces, the Lamb Men, everyone who's died in Meereen, everyone who's died of disease and starvation, is less than the number of people who died because of Stannis and Robb? I call bullshit and a half. I'd also like to point out that both of them were largely fighting defensively or in response to people who had struck first. Dany is waging a war of aggression.

I've never claimed that Euron was a saint or a hero, nor do I ever defend him in any way, so I'm baffled as to why you include him in a list making an argument to me. Same with Tywin. Stop building strawmen.

Robb was the same age.

And fighting a defensive war against Lannister aggression. Not sacking cities for the lulz. A terrible comparison and an extremely weak argument.

It is war is one of the easiest most stupid excuses for atrocities ever.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what a lot of the Nuremburg guys said before they were hanged.

[Mace Cooterian]

Exactly. People. Dany is only against slavery when it benefits her to do so.

Need to pay for an army? Slavery's OK.

Need to not have to pay for an army? Slavery's not OK.

Need to make peace with the army outside your gate? Slavery's OK.

Need to build up a power base with a conquered city's pleb population? Slavery's not OK.

Need to fill up Meereen's coffers and dig bean ditches? Slavery's OK.

For fuck's sake, she's allowing people to sell themselves into slavery and making money off of it.

@Apple Martini.

For the sake of argument; where do you think Dany will end up? I'm not looking for personal preference on your part, nor your own idealogy. But rather, given what we have all read, where do you think GRRM has Dany headed?