Dany Is Going To Surprise A Lot Of People

[Zupoleon]

Dany is her father's daughter and her story echoes his. Starting out as a competent and good ruler but devolving into paranoia, bitterness and madness.

All the layers that made Dany that sweet, kind hearted girl she was at the start of the story have been and are being stripped away to reveal what is really at her core, Fire and Blood.

The wife of the brave Khal - gone up in flames

The freer of slaves - backfired badly and took down an entire civilization with it.

the cultural reformer - turns out they didn't want any of it.

All she has left is her identity as "rightful heir to the Iron Throne" and when she arrives in Westeros to see that they already have a "Targaryen" King who is ahead of her in the line of succession and is already married to Arianne, . . .well . . . Fire and Blood indeed.

You took the words out of my mouth. No guarantee, but Dany's experiences are really opening up the possibility for her to follow down her father's footsteps. She has continuously been burned, and there is no end in site as of yet. That could easily lead to the paranoia her father suffered from, and from there, who knows...

[Mace Cooterian]

Well I don't think Dany will just happily set aside her ambition for the Throne and say "go on nephew it's yours by right.".

Got it. Thought that is what you meant...hence, A Second Dance of the Dragons.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Guys, antagonist and "evil nasty villain" can be different. Antagonist can mean someone opposed to the protagonists. The antagonist doesnt have to be evil. So people think that Dany may possibly end up as an antagonist for the folks in Westeros. Does that make her the main villain? No. I suspect, due to Martin's style, that we are going to end up sympathizing with Dany anyway if that ends up being the case.

I really dont see how Tyrion would be able to change anything positively for DAny

I have to agree. Tyrion is in a very dark place right now. That rubbing off on a girl with a nuke beast could be very bad news.

[Mace Cooterian]

correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Selmy didnt like schemers like LF and Vary's, Tyrion is the same type of schemer, hes just not nearly as good at it as Vary's and LF are. Not to mention the "imp" didnt exactly have a good reputation before SElmy left. Also the way Selmy is obsessed with honor... how do you think he will feel about a "kinslayer"?

That is a point well taken; assuming of course that word has carried into Slaver's Bay that the Imp has deposed of he who "shit's gold".

Nevertheless, now might be a good time for someone to remind us all of the Quaithe's prophesies so that we might consider where Tyrion fits into the mix.

[Lady of Dragonstone]

He ordered the murder of a certain bard long before the shit really hit the fan... He armed the hill tribes so they could rape and plunder the small folk of the vale... And Tyrion still lived a pampered life and was well educated and never was want for gold... Boo hoo, his daddy didnt love him enough, even with that Tyrion had a better upbringing then 99.9999% of westeros had.

I suppose it's all about perspective then. My feelings and judgement of Tyrion and ALL characters have little and less to do with their social status and how much gold they have, and I don't really see what that has to do with the topic.

This isn't a Tyrion thread, it's a Dany thread, so I won't veer anymore, I promise! :)

[Mace Cooterian]

Guys, antagonist and "evil nasty villain" can be different. Antagonist can mean someone opposed to the protagonists. The antagonist doesnt have to be evil. So people think that Dany may possibly end up as an antagonist for the folks in Westeros. Does that make her the main villain? No. I suspect, due to Martin's style, that we are going to end up sympathizing with Dany anyway if that ends up being the case.

I have to agree. Tyrion is in a very dark place right now. That rubbing off on a girl with a nuke beast could be very bad news.

What I think Tyrion might bring to the party is some knowledge of dragons. Let's face it; outside of Drogon, Dany has not exhibited any success in controlling her dragons.

I'm going to finish my thoughts as MyFairLady has astutely reminded us of the intent of the original OP.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Maybe Tyrion will provide some insight about the dragons, but hes still in an extremely nasty and bitter state of mind. It just doesnt bode well.

[western wolf]

Dany is her father's daughter and her story echoes his. Starting out as a competent and good ruler but devolving into paranoia, bitterness and madness.

All the layers that made Dany that sweet, kind hearted girl she was at the start of the story have been and are being stripped away to reveal what is really at her core, Fire and Blood.

The wife of the brave Khal - gone up in flames

The freer of slaves - backfired badly and took down an entire civilization with it.

the cultural reformer - turns out they didn't want any of it.

All she has left is her identity as "rightful heir to the Iron Throne" and when she arrives in Westeros to see that they already have a "Targaryen" King who is ahead of her in the line of succession and is already married to Arianne, . . .well . . . Fire and Blood indeed.

That's a little harsh on Dany. She's trying to do what she thought is right in all those situations. Granted she was betrayed, but she hasn't seemed to have given up hope, nor has she hardened to the point where she is unwilling to help the needy.

The reason why she is in this position is because she was taught from a young age that she was to follow her brothers wishes; HE was taught that he was the leader and entitled to her loyalty. She just doesn't know what to do because she never saw herself in this situation. But each betrayal helps her learn, and I think she still has faith in Mirri Maz Dur's prophecy. She appears to be hoping that Mirri was right so that she can bear more children. That doesn't sound like she's becoming her father.

[Stannis Gotta Stan]

Also, just a thought... could Tyrions advice that sent Aegon

What I think Tyrion might bring to the party is some knowledge of dragons. Let's face it; outside of Drogon, Dany has not exhibited any success in controlling her dragons.

I'm going to finish my thoughts as MyFairLady has astutely reminded us of the intent of the original OP.

well it was the OP who brought up Tyrion's effect on DAny being the "X factor", so I dont really think discussing how tyrion would influence DAny is off topic at all

[western wolf]

What I think Tyrion might bring to the party is some knowledge of dragons. Let's face it; outside of Drogon, Dany has not exhibited any success in controlling her dragons.

I'm going to finish my thoughts as MyFairLady has astutely reminded us of the intent of the original OP.

I think that she could control either of the other two if she wanted to. They both came to her (or tried to) when she locked them into the pyramid.

I think she lured them in there with food, but she was there so they went in because they thought everything would be fine.

[Dolorous Nedd]

He ordered the murder of a certain bard long before the shit really hit the fan... He armed the hill tribes so they could rape and plunder the small folk of the vale... And Tyrion still lived a pampered life and was well educated and never was want for gold... Boo hoo, his daddy didnt love him enough, even with that Tyrion had a better upbringing then 99.9999% of westeros had.

I think he did an excellent job of making sure King's Landing was ready for the war and he got very little recognition for it. As a thank you Tywin told Tyrion "...since I can't prove you are not my son..." After nearly dying while fighting heroically that would hurt just a tad. Tywin was an ass wipe to him, no two ways about it.

[Lady's Secret]

really? Did you forget all the people she crucified? Or how she ordered the murder of every man in astapor who wore a certain type of dress? How she ordered the torture of a merchants daughters? How she ordered people to pay fines for the crime of not remembering an ex slaves name? Shes not some innocent child, she has more blood on her hands then most.

I haven't forgotten anything. What Dany does to her enemies and what she does to those in her power are two different things. The difference is why I don't think she will become the force that everyone will have to ban together to stop. She's ruthless with her enemies and kind to her people. Isn't that necassary for any good leader? Please name a Lord Paramount or King that wasn't capable of violence to protect their people or further their cause. There are no inocent players in the game of thrones and there are always casualties.

I never said she was an innocent child. Of course she has blood on her hands, all of the players do. I don't think she has more blood on her hands than say Litterfinger or Varys.

At one point or another, all of the players have done things that saved their lives or furthered their cause at the expense of others. Thats why their still alive and playing the game.

[Lady of Dragonstone]

Also, just a thought... could Tyrions advice that sent Aegon

well it was the OP who brought up Tyrion's effect on DAny being the "X factor", so I dont really think discussing how tyrion would influence DAny is off topic at all

Sorry, I meant that I was off topic by talking about the whole money/financial situation relating to Tyrion. It's late here! Forgive me. No rudeness or snarkiness intended.

[Lady's Secret]

correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Selmy didnt like schemers like LF and Vary's, Tyrion is the same type of schemer, hes just not nearly as good at it as Vary's and LF are. Not to mention the "imp" didnt exactly have a good reputation before SElmy left. Also the way Selmy is obsessed with honor... how do you think he will feel about a "kinslayer"?

Well considering the fact that Selmy worked with a Kingslayer for years I'm sure he would work with a kinslayer whether he liked it or not if he was ordered to. Selmy follows orders.

[Toccs]

I haven't forgotten anything. What Dany does to her enemies and what she does to those in her power are two different things. The difference is why I don't think she will become the force that everyone will have to ban together to stop.

So you don't think that an angry, entitled, child queen with Dragons who is intent on claiming the rulership of an enitre continent to which she has no right, and who has left a trail of death and destruction behind her is something that people will need to band together to stop?

[Mace Cooterian]

I think that she could control either of the other two if she wanted to. They both came to her (or tried to) when she locked them into the pyramid.

I think she lured them in there with food, but she was there so they went in because they thought everything would be fine.

I'm not so sure about luring dragon's with food is a way to control them. Not that he used food; but confronting a hungry dragon does not bode well for folks.....a.k.a. Quentyn Martell.

My personal feeling is that Dany needs advisors; whether her mission is justified or not. The fact remains she is "the mother of dragons". That is a rather large obsticle to get around.

In terms of advisors; Jorah has sort of cast his die. Selmy is the consummate warrior and kingsgard; but void of real knowledge. He is a fighter and a warrior. Dany is going to need knowledge and she is going to need Tyrion. IMHO.

[Stannis Gotta Stan]

I haven't forgotten anything. What Dany does to her enemies and what she does to those in her power are two different things. The difference is why I don't think she will become the force that everyone will have to ban together to stop. She's ruthless with her enemies and kind to her people. Isn't that necassary for any good leader? Please name a Lord Paramount or King that wasn't capable of violence to protect their people or further their cause. There are no inocent players in the game of thrones and there are always casualties.

I never said she was an innocent child. Of course she has blood on her hands, all of the players do. I don't think she has more blood on her hands than say Litterfinger or Varys.

At one point or another, all of the players have done things that saved their lives or furthered their cause at the expense of others. Thats why their still alive and playing the game.

I'm sorry but... What did astapor do to Dany exactly? She attacked them for no reason at all... She made them enemies for no reason. You say because they were cruel slavers? When Dany attacked them, her entire party was made up of slavers, the men dothraki following her were slavers and rapists. Did she punish the Dothraki for their crimes? No.

She up and murdered a large number of people who had done her no wrong and were guilty of the same things the majority of her followers were guilty of. (No I dont think the slaver being a dick through the interpretor warranted a death sentence :P )

DAny has shown she can be murderous to complete strangers without provocation

Sorry, I meant that I was off topic by talking about the whole money/financial situation relating to Tyrion. It's late here! Forgive me. No rudeness or snarkiness intended.

no offense taken! I misread what you were saying, its late here too :P

Well considering the fact that Selmy worked with a Kingslayer for years I'm sure he would work with a kinslayer whether he liked it or not if he was ordered to. Selmy follows orders.

oh he would probably work with him if ordered, never said he wouldnt, I'm just saying Selmy will likely dislike/hate Tyrion and be vary wary of letting him advise the Dany

[Lady's Secret]

I'm sorry but... What did astapor do to Dany exactly? She attacked them for no reason at all... She made them enemies for no reason. You say because they were cruel slavers? When Dany attacked them, her entire party was made up of slavers, the men dothraki following her were slavers and rapists. Did she punish the Dothraki for their crimes? No.

She up and murdered a large number of people who had done her no wrong and were guilty of the same things the majority of her followers were guilty of. (No I dont think the slaver being a dick through the interpretor warranted a death sentence :P )

I never said anything about slavers. Someone else posted that.

[Mace Cooterian]

Oh, and I might add as it relates to the OP. I hope that she manages to make her way to Westeros before the mid way pont of TWoW. I have to confess that I really am on the fence in terms of whether I think that she will ever make it back to Westeros. My preference is that she does. But given the last two books; I'm skeptical. I just hope that GRRM does not send her back to wence the Targaryans originated....Valaryia.

[western wolf]

I'm not so sure about luring dragon's with food is a way to control them. Not that he used food; but confronting a hungry dragon does not bode well for folks.....a.k.a. Quentyn Martell.

My personal feeling is that Dany needs advisors; whether her mission is justified or not. The fact remains she is "the mother of dragons". That is a rather large obsticle to get around.

In terms of advisors; Jorah has sort of cast his die. Selmy is the consummate warrior and kingsgard; but void of real knowledge. He is a fighter and a warrior. Dany is going to need knowledge and she is going to need Tyrion. IMHO.

Quentyn was basically screwed. I don't think it was the fact that there was food present that brought the dragons, I think it was the fact that Dany was there, so they thought they would be safe in going into the pyramid.

Dany is a descendant of Valyria, and it might be that the magic of the Old Valyrians that originally bound the dragons to them kept her safe.

Or, it could be that the magic of blood magic ritual she used to create them has bound them to her.

Or, it could be simply because she nurtured them that they have an affinity for her, and thus bind themselves to her.

Quentin didn't have any of these, so him going into the pit with them was...monstrously stupid.

As for advisors, Dany could do much worse than Tyrion. as an advisor, and he could give her lots of GREAT advice on how to take out Westeros (I mean he was on the ruling council and is a member of the current ruling family). He could also teach her the Game of Thrones, which he plays well, and which she needs to learn.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I agree with you on your second point, but not your first.