Seventh Pup Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 My advice would be to read Tad Williams Memory Sorrow and Thorn trilogy (actually four books in paper back) first. Williams has some similarities to Jordan, he can be VERY discriptive and not very fast passed. However I think Williams does this type of "tapistry" writting much better then Jordan. At this point in time Williams is still my favorite modern fantasy author, though if Martin ends his series well he may well claim it. If you can't stand Williams passing you will probably wither under Jordans. Warning though Nyneave is the single most annoying character to have ever graced the pages of any book. (Followed in a distant second by Ginny from Harry Potter ) By the end of CoT I could not read Nyneave with out the want to claw my own eyes out! She seriously has no redeeming qualities. That said Jordan is not a terrible read. I have not read KoD yet, though I did read (sort of) CoT. His first books are very good, his middle books are okay, and his latter books are not as good. Still I'd read CoT over Wizard's First Rule anyday! He's done a good job creating a world, and populating it. His magic system is interesting, though a little sexiest. If he ends the series well I will forgive him his medicore books. I just really hope he has the balls to let Rand die! SPOILER: WoT Bye the bye, one of the characters that is annoying and yet I find entertaining (I'm not sure why) is Elayne. In KoD do you learn anything more about her children? I know she's having twins but are the sexes revealed and is there anything special about them. Just wondering, and have vowed not to read another Jordan book until the series is finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Still I'd read CoT over Wizard's First Rule anyday!Quoted for truth and emphasis. I've tried to read that series about five different times and can't find a single redeeming quality about it. I guess if you worship Ayn Rand, then ok. But she's a very poor choice of person to worship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventh Pup Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Quoted for truth and emphasis. I've tried to read that series about five different times and can't find a single redeeming quality about it. I guess if you worship Ayn Rand, then ok. But she's a very poor choice of person to worship. I don't know much about Ayn Rand. However if that is what makes Goodkind's books so bad then I will be sure to steer clear of her teachings. Seriously I think the reason so many people have strongly negative reactions to Jordan is that they feel let down. I mean GK's book start off bad, and I hear they just get worse and worse. Jordan's books start off really good, and that makes his sucking in later books worse. I would still like to emphasis that Jordan in his worst books is STILL head and shoulders above the utter hacks that plauge fantasy like herpes in a frat house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Girl Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Jordan's books start off really good ...which I still can't agree with. I barely made it through EotW with effort, and never touched another WoT book afterwards. I kept thinking GET ON WITH IT as I was reading...I just couldn't get into it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asa Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 ...which I still can't agree with. I barely made it through EotW with effort, and never touched another WoT book afterwards. I kept thinking GET ON WITH IT as I was reading...I just couldn't get into it at all. Yeah, I don't think the first WoT books were very good. They were good, sure, but they weren't amazing. The series would've been amazing with some extensive editing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventh Pup Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 ...which I still can't agree with. I barely made it through EotW with effort, and never touched another WoT book afterwards. I kept thinking GET ON WITH IT as I was reading...I just couldn't get into it at all. Well I think it comes down to taste. I know there are lot of people who think Memory Sorrow and Thorn dragged out. But I adored that series. I've know at least two people that never made it through LotR because they felt it was to slow. I don't think you are wrong for not liking Eye of the World, I will just say that to me it was a really wonderful read. It's not until latter books that even I started to think Jordan was dragging his feet a bit much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rhaenys Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 I see. Makes sense now. I guess I'm old and managed to avoid being "defined" , as I really never was aware it was a trend. I did get swindled by Goodkind though, but that makes only 2 to me. (well you could add Salvatore, but I think he wrote at length before WoT) Part of it is probably because I can't really find any fantasy of interest these days, so I never make it past first half of most book 1's I don't think it's so much that so many people have done it, as that the few who have sold record number of books. I would guess that Martin, Jordan, and Goodkind have the three top-selling fantasy series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Wheel of Time series peaked with books four through six, then it was mostly downhill from there. I agree with Asa's assessment that the series could have used some massive editing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwyn Posted April 30, 2006 Author Share Posted April 30, 2006 Still I'd read CoT over Wizard's First Rule anyday! I own wizard's first rule. I've never read it though. I got it as a present the same christmas as aGoT. I read the first few pages, was sort of bored, figured I'd come back to it later, picked up aGoT and well, the rest is history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padraig Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Back in the early 90s when a lot of people started reading tWoT, Eddings and Brooks were the 2 biggest names in fantasy. If tWoT started now, I don't think it would be as loved as it was back then. At the time, it was something more challenging, more grown-up than the YA fantasy that seemed so popular then. Now its been utterly eclipsed by better mature fare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krafus Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 ...which I still can't agree with. I barely made it through EotW with effort, and never touched another WoT book afterwards. I kept thinking GET ON WITH IT as I was reading...I just couldn't get into it at all. Oh boy. If that's how you feel, don't ever read book 8, Path of Daggers. GET ON WITH IT! is what I wanted to shout at the characters... And that considering I thought EotW decently paced. The series would've been amazing with some extensive editing. Actually, IMHO it's when Jordan's wife became his editor that the series took a nosedive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asa Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Actually, IMHO it's when Jordan's wife became his editor that the series took a nosedive. Even the earlier ones would've been a lot better with lots of editing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rhaenys Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Actually, IMHO it's when Jordan's wife became his editor that the series took a nosedive. When did Jordan's wife become his editor? I haven't heard that before, but it would sure explain a lot - was it book 7 or 8? I'm guessing 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwyn Posted April 30, 2006 Author Share Posted April 30, 2006 Oh boy. If that's how you feel, don't ever read book 8, Path of Daggers. GET ON WITH IT! is what I wanted to shout at the characters... And that considering I thought EotW decently paced. Actually, IMHO it's when Jordan's wife became his editor that the series took a nosedive. Things can never end well when writers include their spouses in the process. Cruel perhaps but true. Like when Mercedes Lackey's husband started doing the art for her books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 I don't think it's so much that so many people have done it, as that the few who have sold record number of books. I would guess that Martin, Jordan, and Goodkind have the three top-selling fantasy series. Well, you are forgetting JRR Tolkien (150 million+, probably 200 million+ given the number of pirate and unlicensed copies around the world, and that's just Lord of the Rings by itself) and JK Rowling (200 million sales of the whole Harry Potter series). However among the rest of the bunch (and not counting Stephen King, where the "Fantasy or Horror?" debate of either all his books or just The Dark Tower series could be a thread unto itself): Terry Pratchett has the biggest-selling series with over 45 million sales of Discworld. Robert Jordan is next, but worldwide figures for Wheel of Time have never been released. It has sold an estimated 13-20 million copies in North America by itself though, leading some to place worldwide sales at the 30 million mark. Raymond E. Feist was the next biggest selling author after Pratchett and Jordan in 2001, but I haven't seen any figures for his books since then. Goodkind has done spectacularly in North America (where he is Tor's second-biggest-selling author after Jordan), but less so in the rest of the world. Sales in Britain, for example, seem to be solid but unspectacular. George R.R. Martin's sales seem to have passed the 4 million mark for ASoIF series (400K roughly for AFFC in hardback alone) and sales are increasing rapidly from the look of it. Martin does seem to be approaching a kind of saturation break-out point where he could just explode into the 'next Jordan' which would be extremely welcome. Previous high-selling authors like Weis, Hickman, Salvatore, Eddings and Brooks seem to be past their highwater marks for sales, but all are still solid, bankable writers. Steven Erikson is still relatively small-fry, with figures of about 600,000 for the whole series floating around, although this seems rather low for such a high-profile author. On the other hand, it seems rather high for just the UK market by itself. Perhaps it's just the US sales to date? That would make more sense (200,000 copies each of the first three books...sounds like a good start). Bakker seems to have been seriously hamstrung by the size of his US publisher, but in the UK he's with the biggest SF&F name in town, Orbit, and they are reportedly very pleased with his progress and eagerly snapped up the rights to The Aspect-Emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventh Pup Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Absolutely, I agree. But I also think that WoT paved the way for more mature and complex fare to be considered by publishers. I agree. With out Jordan there would probably be no Williams, Martin or Erikson; or at least they would have a much harder time getting published. Jordan proved that epic, more mature fantasy can make publishers wealthy. Fantasy owes a lot to Jordan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rhaenys Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Werthead - thanks for the info. I'm sorry to say that I was actually unfamiliar with both Pratchett and Feist. I would include the Dark Tower series, since it's supposed to be King's attempt to write fantasy. I never mention Tolkein b/c it's such a given. I hate Harry Potter, so I never consider that either. BTW - anyone care to distinguish between high fantasy and other fantasy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Dark Tower, The Talisman and Black House all count as fantasy, by my estimation. Not so sure about some of King's other work though. I actually consider Pratchett more as satire than as fantasy. The early novels are definitely obvious parodies of fantasy novels, but the farther along you go in Discworld, the more he uses it to poke fun at actual human civilization. It definitely has a number of characteristics in common with other fantasy works, but in a way it's also an entity unto itself. I don't really know of anything else that compares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventh Pup Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Werthead - thanks for the info. I'm sorry to say that I was actually unfamiliar with both Pratchett and Feist. I would include the Dark Tower series, since it's supposed to be King's attempt to write fantasy. I never mention Tolkein b/c it's such a given. I hate Harry Potter, so I never consider that either. BTW - anyone care to distinguish between high fantasy and other fantasy? Different people will give different defs but here is mine .... Fantasy has fantastic elements to it, i.e. magic, monsters the like. But it also takes place in the "real" world. I would not consider something like Harry Potter "High Fantasy", though no matter what JKR says it is fantasy! High Fantasy takes place either off world or so far in the future or past as to be unrecognizable. High Fantasy the author has to do build the world from scratch. There is no "mean while back on the ranch" escapades back to the real modern world. Of course this is only my opinion of what separates the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vercint Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Jordan proved that epic, more mature fantasy can make publishers wealthy. Fantasy owes a lot to Jordan. I agree that fantasy owes him a lot, but WoT is 'mature' only in relative terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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