Relative atrocities

[Lady Sansa Stark]

I don't buy the 'looking out for Cersei and the kids" excuse. Because his act placed his children in danger in the first place. If it was just a binary choice, like Kill 1(Bran): Kill 3 (Joffrey, Myrcella, Tommen) then I would accept it. But if his children's lives were important to him, he wouldn;t have placed them at risk by bagning Cersei (in a tower in Winterfell no less) so I'm lead to believe that his attempted murder of Bran was at least mostly motivated by self interest, and not by an attempt to protect his kids.

He never even cared about his children. Joffrey was merely a squirt in Cersei's cunt. ;)

[mormont]

They both acted based on "if"s. Stannis believed Mel's words that sacrificing Edric would help a bigger good and Jaime, even for a moment, thought that killing the Mad King would save people from getting burnt. As pointed out in many other threads, he could have simply knocked down unconscious.

You really don't see a moral difference between killing a would-be murderer in the act of carrying out his crime, and sacrificing an innocent boy on the say-so of your magical adviser?

[SeanF]

He never even cared about his children. Joffrey was merely a squirt in Cersei's cunt. ;)

Such a charming way to describe one's son :drunk:

[Castel]

I don't buy the 'looking out for Cersei and the kids" excuse. Because his act placed his children in danger in the first place. If it was just a binary choice, like Kill 1(Bran): Kill 3 (Joffrey, Myrcella, Tommen) then I would accept it. But if his children's lives were important to him, he wouldn;t have placed them at risk by bagning Cersei (in a tower in Winterfell no less) so I'm lead to believe that his attempted murder of Bran was at least mostly motivated by self interest, and not by an attempt to protect his kids.

Actually, it didn't. Or more importantly, shouldn't have. A boy falling from a climb is enough cover that he can escape and live a fine life. Sure, sleeping with Cersei in a tower is a risk, but it was an abandoned tower and no one could predict that Bran was a climber. Regardless he created the scenario that forced him to take one path.

I also find it a bit strange that you believe that a person can't love his children and also love their mother enough to still see her. People are selfish. Anyways, it's irrelevant, 5 people probably would have died. Jaime certainly cared more about those five than Bran, I think that we can agree on that.

[Tetrarch42]

Actually, it didn't. Or more importantly, shouldn't have. A boy falling from a climb is enough cover that he can escape and live a fine life. Sure, sleeping with Cersei in a tower is a risk, but it was an abandoned tower and no one could predict that Bran was a climber. Regardless he created the scenario that forced him to take one path.

I also find it a bit strange that you believe that a person can't love his children and also love their mother enough to still see her. People are selfish. Anyways, it's irrelevant, 5 people probably would have died. Jaime certainly cared more about those five than Bran, I think that we can agree on that.

The entire practice of sleeping with his sister was enough to instigate a continent wide civil war, nevermind the immediate implications for his three children. He's been gambling with his children's lives since Joffrey was born. The fact that he's willing to risk his children's lives in order to continue his affair with Cersei is indicative of his character, like you said, selfish. We can agree that Jaime cares more about those five than Bran, but how does that bear down on whether or not Jaime is in need of redemption? The fact that he attempted murder of a child is what makes him in need of redemption, not the fact that he chose his life, and the lives of his family over Bran's.

The fact that he (in part) precipitated the event makes it more complex than save 1 life or save 5 lives.

[Cruella]

There is something gross to me in comparing atrocities, like human suffering can be quantified from the outside and "counted" like coins. What's worse, to be burnt alive or see your child killed in front of you? A group of internet users will decide now!

Sorry, had to say that.

[Castel]

The entire practice of sleeping with his sister was enough to instigate a continent wide civil war, nevermind the immediate implications for his three children. He's been gambling with his children's lives since Joffrey was born. The fact that he's willing to risk his children's lives in order to continue his affair with Cersei is indicative of his character, like you said, selfish. We can agree that Jaime cares more about those five than Bran, but how does that bear down on whether or not Jaime is in need of redemption? The fact that he attempted murder of a child is what makes him in need of redemption, not the fact that he chose his life, and the lives of his family over Bran's.

The fact that he (in part) precipitated the event makes it more complex than save 1 life or save 5 lives.

I disagree. To me, the fact that he created a situation where he might have to murder someone is why he needs redemptien is bad (something about redemption turns me off-it's simultaneously seems very Hollywood and very religious). Bran was the unfortunate person in the wrong place, him being a child is incidental and I don't see what difference it makes. If it had been a drunken knight bringing the serving girl to their secret hideout it would be just as wrong, because Jaime would have had to kill them as well.

It's the irresponsibility that gets to me. And to that end there were worse instances, like when he slept with Cersei with Robert passed out drunk next to them. That was far, far more irresponsible imo.

:

We've gotten off the point I was making:either way, it was irresponsible from the beginning. War might have happened and the children might have died, I just didn't buy that Jaime didn't care about them at all. He was very distant by necessity, but he probably cared.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

You really don't see a moral difference between killing a would-be murderer in the act of carrying out his crime, and sacrificing an innocent boy on the say-so of your magical adviser?

I do, but i was directly replying to this:

Unjustifiable:

-Tyrells killing Joffrey: Need to say why?

- Jaime killing Aerys: Again, need to explain?

I think both are justifiable, as both Joffrey and Aerys were a danger to not one or two people but pretty much to all Westeros. That post also says that Stannis attempting to sacrifice Edric was "justifiable", while although it's morally condemnable, in Stannis' eyes, it is: he believes that Mel's words are true and there was the need to make a sacrifice for the bigger good. Killing one person to save millions can be justifiable. Joffrey is a kid too - who ended up being what he is due to bad parenting - and he could have done very terrible things as a grown man. In a way, Edric's death would help Stannis to get the throne and stop Joffrey from become another Aerys.

I personally believe murder is murder no matter what, but in the case of this characters, they can justify what they did based on the gains they would eventually get not for themselves but for others.

[Fearsedge]

Breaking a marriage contract isn't trivial. It's more or less the equivalent of breaking a treaty after you got what you wanted. See, Robb is not a just man, he's the State, such actions are beneath him. Completely unjustifiable in any real sense to me. It can be rationalized to me, but I haven't seen a convincing justification

Yea, I was on my phone and I hate typing on it. Yea, it's a big deal what Robb did, IN universe. I understand his reasons for doing it. He was grieving. He also wanted to protect Jeyne. I don't think a character making a mistake when they had good intentions is a reason to hate them. That's just a matter of opinion.

edit: the show made Robb look far stupider, where I couldn't really sympathize for him much at all. If I remember, he didn't even know about his brother's "deaths" at that point in the show.

In the book, I feel for Robb. He was put in a difficult position(if I remember correctly he was meant to be put in that position), and he made a huge mistake.

I don't like it when people write off one of these complex characters because of one mistake they make. Like Robb's marriage contract, or Cat for letting Jaime free(though that one was a particularly stupid mistake, imo)and Sansa going to Cercei and fucking everything up for her dad seem to be the popular ones. They are interesting and well written characters that make mistakes like real people. That's my take on it anyway.