Did Dany truly love Khal Drogo?

[Selyse's Moustache Rides]

Y'know, I'm not comfortable with that question. Personally, I think it strange that she harbours no resentment towards him and it comes off almost as a bad porn movie plot.

On the other hand, I can half-rationalise it as her being so used to sexual abuse from Viserys that she accets it as natural and feels that the onus is on her to try and enjoy it.

And I'm not sure which option squicks me out more. :ack:

Sorry if this is too meta, but I think this is just a function of GRRM possibly not being well-versed in human psychology. I've never been a 13 year old girl, nor have I ever been a 28 year old man attempting to seduce a 13 year old girl, but her willingness on their wedding night and her eventual love for him does strike me as unrealistic.

[Theda Baratheon]

~

[Selyse's Moustache Rides]

Well Sansa, Arya, Marg probably would not have been as fond of him because their prior life was functional and mostly happy, a stark contrast to the circumstances they would have encountered as his wife. Dany however already has been horribly abused so I can see why Drogo is "the lesser evil" and can be perceived as downright empowering in contrast to Viserys.

Yep. Viserys was an abusive asshole. Drogo was ignorant, but not threatened by her burgeoning empowerment. That is why she loved him.

[Kolantero]

WK andPatrickStormborn already voiced most of my positions so I have little to add. However to stay within the Westerosi world view: Could you imagine Ned/Robb/Jon/Davos/Sam/Pod etc doing the same?

I don't think this comparison is valid to make when judging Drogo because he and Ned/Robb/Jon etc are coming from radically different cultures and "worlds". The difference in Dothraki and Westeros culture is so big that they seem as if they came from different times.

[The Storm Queen]

This bit?

Again I have to bow to your superior wisdom :-)

slightly OT: Where has your creepy sig gone? I was wondering who/what it showed? Melisandre without her glamour (dark and full of terror, indeed)? A stern warning to all heretics who deny Nedbert? The secret face of our evil feminazi conspiracy? So many questions, so few answers....

[Winter's Knight]

g

Again I have to bow to your superior wisdom :-)

slightly OT: Where has your creepy sig gone? I was wondering who/what it showed? Melisandre without her glamour (dark and full of terror, indeed)? A stern warning to all heretics who deny Nedbert? The secret face of our evil feminazi conspiracy? So many questions, so few answers....

That was supposed to be Lady Stoneheart swearing vengeance on her enemies. :P

I heard this song today and realised the chorus suited Brienne-I just had to siggy it.

[The Storm Queen]

I don't think this comparison is valid to make when judging Drogo because he and Ned/Robb/Jon etc are coming from radically different cultures and "worlds". The difference in Dothraki and Westeros culture is so big that they seem as if they came from different times.

They at least live in the same "world". According to your standards only the Dothraki would be allowed to judge the Dothraki which I do not find terribly satisfying and we are back at the "forced fellatio with five years old is fine" argument from the beginning of the thread

[RhaenysBee]

Sorry if this is too meta, but I think this is just a function of GRRM possibly not being well-versed in human psychology. I've never been a 13 year old girl, nor have I ever been a 28 year old man attempting to seduce a 13 year old girl, but her willingness on their wedding night and her eventual love for him does strike me as unrealistic.

I will so be condemned for this, but I have been a 13 year old girl and I can just very well see the realism of that. Growing to love an 28 year old and being willing on the wedding night with him. Just saying.

Well Sansa, Arya, Marg probably would not have been as fond of him because their prior life was functional and mostly happy, a stark contrast to the circumstances they would have encountered as his wife. Dany however already has been horribly abused so I can see why Drogo is "the lesser evil" and can be perceived as downright empowering in contrast to Viserys.

Drogo is not a lesser evil. In the beginning maybe, but later she doesn't consider him as lesser evil or evil at all. And Drogo sort of brought down the stars to Daenerys once they got the hang of it. Wasn't just 'less evil than Viserys' to her. He sort of did everything she asked. Leaving Mirri Maz Duur as hers, getting treated by her, sailing to Westeros, letting Viserys to ride with them again etc. And Sansa wasn't trying to protest Tyrion either. It was custom that a bride had sex with her husband. Sansa only refused when Tyrion asked her what she wanted. Daenerys did not refuse when Drogo asked her. There's a slight difference there.

[Arya Stalka]

I'm going to go with a YES. I believe she was raised to be dutiful and obedient and while she may not have loved him at first, she grew to love him or else why would he ever be her sun, moon and stars?

Yes, it's gross in today's day and age, but in Westeros, and even our own Midevil times, it was not creepy back then. I don't know why people want to associate fantasy with reality so much.

Off topic, but does anybody watch Borgias? Lucrezia Borgia was married off at 13. Now her story was messed up because her husband abused her (despite the fact that she wanted to please him) and so she hated him.

Now Dany, also wanted to please her husband and win him over and she did and they fell in love.

[Arkantos]

I'm thinking this argument has turned into each of us recycling our own opinions over and over again to try and get the last word, save face or boost our ego's - so it's probably best to agree to disagree on this.

These people and their egos eh? At least some of us can back down/give up.

They say you learn through repetition, so if you keep repeating something that's wrong, you'll just reinforce it in your own head. A good reason to not keep the circle going.

[Theda Baratheon]

These people and their egos eh? At least some of us can back down/give up.

They say you learn through repetition, so if you keep repeating something that's wrong, you'll just reinforce it in your own head. A good reason to not keep the circle going.

Aye; exactly.

[Le Cygne]

I will so be condemned for this, but I have been a 13 year old girl and I can just very well see the realism of that. Growing to love an 28 year old and being willing on the wedding night with him. Just saying.

Not condemned at all, I was thinking the same thing.

Drogo is not a lesser evil. In the beginning maybe, but later she doesn't consider him as lesser evil or evil at all. And Drogo sort of brought down the stars to Daenerys once they got the hang of it. Wasn't just 'less evil than Viserys' to her. He sort of did everything she asked. Leaving Mirri Maz Duur as hers, getting treated by her, sailing to Westeros, letting Viserys to ride with them again etc. And Sansa wasn't trying to protest Tyrion either. It was custom that a bride had sex with her husband. Sansa only refused when Tyrion asked her what she wanted. Daenerys did not refuse when Drogo asked her. There's a slight difference there.

Agreed. It took me a while to get the cut and paste working right, but I posted a bedding scene from the Dunk and Egg stories upthread.

[Theda Baratheon]

Your Visery's/Drogo post. + I gotta agree, your username is fab

[Kolantero]

They at least live in the same "world". According to your standards only the Dothraki would be allowed to judge the Dothraki which I do not find terribly satisfying and we are back at the "forced fellatio with five years old is fine" argument from the beginning of the thread

Ummm no , i 've never claimed that only the Dothraki can judge the Dothraki.

The only thing i claimed was that a comparison between Ned/Jon etc with Drago would be like comparing the knowledge of a 21st century person to the knowledge of a person from 400 B.C., then saying that the 21st guy is a better learner and holding the ancient guy responsible for not knowing computer programming, the law of gravity etc.

Or it would be like accusing a king from 1000 B.C. for suppressing democracy when democracy didn't even existed

[RhaenysBee]

Not condemned at all, I was thinking the same thing.

Agreed. It took me a while to get the cut and paste working right, but I posted a bedding scene from the Dunk and Egg stories upthread.

Hehe, yay! xD

And I'm going back to read that. Was never sure what you were posting there :blushing:

[Selyse's Moustache Rides]

One of my posts has disappeared, so I will say it again. If Dany could love Viserys (just a little bit) despite being an abusive jerk, she could definitely love Drogo, who was much better to her.

[Naathi Prince]

I think the comparison people jump to is rape, when a better one would be prostitution. Dany and Drogo were having transactional sex, and it was Viserys' fault for pimping his sister out. Despite the transactional nature of their initial relationship, Dany begins to empower herself and become a more equal partner.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

BECAUSE SHE KNOWS SHE CAN'T STOP IT. She thinks this is NORMAL. But we know that it is not normal and that Dany should not have to put up with it.

If Dany had the power to choose, she would not have had sex with Drogo.

Drogo seemed to give her a choice the first time and Dany agreed, or at least that's how I read it. I view Dany's harsh nights with Drogo as something Dany felt she had to do so she didn't resist; therefore I have a hard time calling Drogo a barbarian rapist. Dany viewed it as doing her duty to her "lord husband" and doesn't seem to want him to notice how much it hurts her, meanwhile Drogo isn't very enlightened on the "traditional" ways of love-making, so I don't fault him for doing what he knows to do.

Daenerys is a child. Children should not have sex with adults.

It's really that simple. Just because it's legal in some countries doesn't mean I should find it acceptable. It isn't. It's child abuse.

It's that simple to you, because Dany is a child, and in your view the term "child" carries certain implications.

She doesn't say no because if she says no he is likely to slit her throat or rape her even more...

I doubt it. Drogo doesn't seem to be this barbarian that wouldn't take no for an answer, although that is how he is portrayed in this thread and on the TV show.

Because she's a child who is not aware of anything like that? But what she thinks is that she hates her situation and would rather kill herself than live like that.

And before anyone says she thinks that because of the living standards and not because of Drogo, please remember that she's lived on the streets of the Free Cities at points of her life. She's used to living in bad places. She's not used to being raped.

Yes, she hates her entire situation, so please stop asserting that Dany is so brutalized by Drogo that she wanted to die.

Dany's life with the khalasar is at least three times worst than anything she suffered in the Free Cities. Dany is clear that it is more than her nights with Drogo that makes her contemplate taking her own life.

No, she's a child. She's not an adult. She hasn't finished growing or maturing. She's not at the age of majority in her own world. She's therefore a child.

In the story, she's a child that has reached sexual maturity.

I will so be condemned for this, but I have been a 13 year old girl and I can just very well see the realism of that. Growing to love an 28 year old and being willing on the wedding night with him. Just saying.

I'm not condemning you. Given the situation, I can see the realism as well. That doesn't mean we agree with it, or that we are not somewhat disturbed by the reality of it.

[RhaenysBee]

I'm not condemning you. Given the situation, I can see the realism as well. That doesn't mean we agree with it, or that we are not somewhat disturbed by the reality of it.

Oh yay again. :D (for not being condemned)

[Éadaoin]

Sorry if this is too meta, but I think this is just a function of GRRM possibly not being well-versed in human psychology. I've never been a 13 year old girl, nor have I ever been a 28 year old man attempting to seduce a 13 year old girl, but her willingness on their wedding night and her eventual love for him does strike me as unrealistic.

I also found it odd, and I have been a thirteen year old girl. However, I realize that I cannot speak for every thirteen year old girl out there, so.