Why The Jon Hate?

[Ingelheim]

What? Kit is awful as Jon.

He is not awful. He could do it better, but awful? I don't think so.

[Theda Baratheon]

Aw he's not that terrible. I can think of worse people on there. He just needs to close his mouth more.

I might be one of the few people that actually love the TV show and think ALL of the actors and cast are fabulous. :dunno:

[straits]

He needs to burn someone alive or toss a small child out a window. Then he'll be the Most Interesting Man in the World.

Maybe if he had a sadistic past in which he tormented Arya and bullied Robb. Then he'd be edgy enough.

[Scipio Africanus]

Maybe if he had a sadistic past in which he tormented Arya and bullied Robb. Then he'd be edgy enough.

I'm missing the part where he molested Bran...

[David Selig]

Martin said in an interview that magic would become more important next two novels. He also said somewhere that the Game and people fighting over the throne are not only a sideshow but missing the point that humanity is threatened. Can't remember where I read/saw that though. At any rate when I read/watch modern interviews I never get the impression that Martin is writing a political drama in a fantasy setting. The Others, The Wall, Dragons and likely Jon Snow will become imporant. And I suspect you may not like that. ;)

ps I'm not saying Martin has a classic fantasy cliche ending waiting for us. I'm saying the series will definitely focus on magic more than it has past novels.

But even if the last two novels are all about the magic and saving the world (which is obviously unlikely), the majority of the series won't be. Obviously for the people in Westeros saving the world is more important objectively, but for the readers there are different priorities.

Exactly. If Jon does something bad then it'd be, "Oh man what a jerk, how can anyone possibly root for this guy?" But if he does something good, then it's, "Oh god he's so boring, what a sterotype, what a cliche, bitch bitch bitch."

There is literally no way for someone like that — an actually decent person doing stuff for the greater good and not empty, transient political power — to win on here.

It's hilarious that despite that 99% of the board liking Jon you keep posting stuff like this, presenting him as an under-appreciated victim.

[PatrickStormborn]

Kit Harington is beautiful, but he's easily the worst of the main cast members, and he has one of the easiest parts to act (particularly as the weather does a lot of the acting for him).

I definitely agree that with the emergence of fantastical elements in this fantasy novels that familiar 'tropes that we have seen before are going to pop up and I really don't see why this would be a reason for someone to dislike a character but I see it as a reasoning for quite a few characters/events and it really baffles me because as you've states, this is a fantasy series.

I am very selective and picky when it comes to choosing books to read - particularly fantasy series. The only reason I chose "A Song of Ice and Fire" was because of its focus on politics and because GRRM had explicitly stated in a number of interviews that he intended for the series to be a subversion of the fantasy genre. But the character of Jon could pretty much be found in any young adult fantasy novel.

But here's the thing: I've never criticised anyone for liking Jon. Some of my favourite posters list Jon amongst their favourite characters. I've never entered a thread discussing him and made posts saying "WOW HE'S SO BORING WHAT A CLICHE!" etc. I've never used someone's liking of Jon as a reason to dismiss their opinion. But these are things that happen frequently to fans of other (again, usually female) characters by some of the more rabid Jon stans.

But what's the point of me even arguing this? This forum is dominated by Jon Snow stans so I'll just end up being ambushed (and personally insulted) again. Because gods forbid anyone have a different opinion that doesn't comply with what certain posters dictate as the "right" opinion. :rolleyes:

No, but the "trope" and "cliched" things seem to be applied uncommonly often to Jon's story arc. With the wealth of characters Martin has given us, it's almost inevitable that we'd get one who works through a storyline that hews closely to mythical and fantasy tradition.

No, it's not inevitable considering he's pretty much the only one who sticks very closely to the tropes.

Yes, and if the novels were just about Jon Snow's coming of age and rise to power, then I could see this bothering people a lot more. But Jon is just one thread of a larger story with other characters who are less traditional much earlier in their storylines. There are plenty of people who don't like Jon and in fact, they form most of the opposition he experiences in his narrative arc.

Jon had 13 chapters in the last book, and he was also featured in another chapter. That's not just "one thread of a larger story". He's one of the three most important characters and will undoubtedly play a large role in the conclusion.

This makes no sense to me. Jon is not allowed to be likeable because you view three female characters as less likeable? Jon is less grey than two of the characters you listed and I think that we're in for some big changes to his character one the end of Dance cliffhanger is resolved.

Did I say "Jon is not allowed to be likeable"? No. So why are you arguing that? I simply said that I am frustrated with his character being so likeable when a character who is at least equally likeable (Sansa) is treated with scorn by people in the fandom. GRRM has said that characters who are almost universally liked are "probably a piece of cardboard". Surely that applies to Jon? One of his stans has stated on this thread that readers hate him for being "probably" the main character and the eventual hero of the story. But not for any of his actual flaws. Surely if this was the case then, by GRRM's own admission, Jon is "a piece of cardboard" (as he's only disliked for meta reasons)?

For the record, Jon is MORE grey than two of the characters I listed. He's certainly not less grey than Catelyn, and to argue that is one of the reasons why I grow frustrated with the way he is treated by the fandom.

[Winter's Knight]

Y'know guys, people have actually given decent reasons for not liking Jon-he doesn't excite us, there are other characters that interest us more, the Wall/Others story is taking forever, fantasy tropes employed in his storyline strike us more than they do in other storylines because his story doesn't interest us as much.

There is no need to accuse us of not liking the fact that he's a hero or a decet guy. Sansa is decent and moral as are Brienne, Ned, Davos and Cat and I love them to bits because I can identify with them or they excite me or their stories interest me-Jon sweet guy as he is does nothing for me.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

It's hilarious that despite that 99% of the board liking Jon you keep posting stuff like this, presenting him as an under-appreciated victim.

I don't think he's an "underappreciated victim." My point was aimed at those (like, uh, you) who constantly bitch and moan ad nauseum about how boring he is, when if he did stuff that you consider "edgy" or "interesting," he'd be just another asshole no different from the vast majority of characters in this world who do shitty things for one reason or another.

As I said in another thread, the complaint about Jon being a boring cliche is now more of a cliche than Jon himself could ever be.

ETA: And I have yet to see Kit Harington, open-jawed and gormless and all, do any acting as painfully godawful as Emilia Clarke's entitled brat spiel in Qarth. That was actually painful to watch.

[Theda Baratheon]

I am very selective and picky when it comes to choosing books to read - particularly fantasy series. The only reason I chose "A Song of Ice and Fire" was because of its focus on politics and because GRRM had explicitly stated in a number of interviews that he intended for the series to be a subversion of the fantasy genre. But the character of Jon could pretty much be found in any young adult fantasy novel.

But here's the thing: I've never criticised anyone for liking Jon. Some of my favourite posters list Jon amongst their favourite characters. I've never entered a thread discussing him and made posts saying "WOW HE'S SO BORING WHAT A CLICHE!" etc. I've never used someone's liking of Jon as a reason to dismiss their opinion. But these are things that happen frequently to fans of other (again, usually female) characters by some of the more rabid Jon stans.

But what's the point of me even arguing this? This forum is dominated by Jon Snow stans so I'll just end up being ambushed (and personally insulted) again. Because gods forbid anyone have a different opinion that doesn't comply with what certain posters dictate as the "right" opinion. :rolleyes:

No, I don't want to ambush you. :) You've given good reasons for why you don't class him one of your favourites and I'm cool with that. :dunno:

[GillyTarly]

Jon's just emo, okay. It is known.

[Winter's Knight]

To be fair to poor Emille, Qarth was a trainwreck all on it's own, the delightful Spice King not withstanding.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

To be fair to poor Emille, Qarth was a trainwreck all on it's own, the delightful Spice King not withstanding.

I was rooting for the Spice King. :( I actually fist-pumped when he told her to more or less fuck off in that courtyard scene. Getting off-topic, but yeah. Clarke's awful, etc.

[TinHouse]

It's so creepy how Jon has stans, like fans that will defend him to the death. LOL I thought I had finally found a fandom devoid of such characters, but Jon is truly the "Damon" (tvd) or "Edward" (twilight) of ASOIAF, amazing, rofl.

At this point I'm just glad he isn't a vampire, or involved in some sappy romance story.

[E-Ro]

So we have moved on from arguing over witch character is best to witch acter/actress? LOL

Stephen dillane FTW!

[straits]

Y'know guys, people have actually given decent reasons for not liking Jon-he doesn't excite us, there are other characters that interest us more, the Wall/Others story is taking forever, fantasy tropes employed in his storyline strike us more than they do in other storylines because his story doesn't interest us as much.

There is no need to accuse us of not liking the fact that he's a hero or a decet guy. Sansa is decent and moral as are Brienne, Ned, Davos and Cat and I love them to bits because I can identify with them or they excite me or their stories interest me-Jon sweet guy as he is does nothing for me.

This is fine. Dany does nothing for me, for example. That could devolve into me being accused of sexism, but that's another story.

It's calling Jon a weak/cliched character that frustrates people. It's alright that he's not your cup of tea. Calling it 'not tea' is what pisses off his fans.

[GillyTarly]

I wanted Dory bitch slap Dany a few times in the season 2.

[Scipio Africanus]

It's so creepy how Jon has stans, like fans that will defend him to the death. LOL

Wait till you hit a Stannis thread, then you will ROFL.

[Arkantos]

People don't like Jon because they're jealous, they see themselves unable to do half of the things that Jon can do and thus deem him unrealistic. They find him to be a nice person and thus deem him boring for not being a dick.

[Winter's Knight]

It's so creepy how Jon has stans, like fans that will defend him to the death. LOL I thought I had finally found a fandom devoid of such characters, but Jon is truly the "Damon" (tvd) or "Edward" (twilight) of ASOIAF, amazing, rofl.

At this point I'm just glad he isn't a vampire, or involved in some sappy romance story.

Oy. He's not that awful jfc.

So we have moved on from arguing over witch character is best to witch acter/actress? LOL

Stephen dillane FTW!

Lena Headley FTW.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

It's so creepy how Jon has stans, like fans that will defend him to the death. LOL I thought I had finally found a fandom devoid of such characters, but Jon is truly the "Damon" (tvd) or "Edward" (twilight) of ASOIAF, amazing, rofl.

At this point I'm just glad he isn't a vampire, or involved in some sappy romance story.

Clearly you have yet to encounter Dany stans and Stannis stans. Nothing gives me the warm fuzzies like the defense of mass crucifixions and torture, or the well-meaning but sadhat belief that the North really is going to come through for Stannis.