Finding bits of LOTR influences in ASOIAF

[Elfaki]

I've always found a a parallel between Elves and the Children of the Forest. Both love nature and prefer to dwell in forests and similar settings and live there in harmony with the woods, creatures ect. Also both of their civilizations are almost over, the Elves are leaving from Middle Earth and the Children live in hiding far North resulting in a sadness that surround both of them.

[Fire Eater]

Crackpot:

They were exiles and sons of exiles, dispossessed and unforgiven . . . yet formidable fighters still

The men of GC had originally sworn oaths to the Targayen kings, and betrayed him when Daemon rose in rebellion, this resulted in them being exiled from Westeros. This brings to mind the Dead men of Dunharrow who swore an oath to Isildur, and when they betrayed Isildur, he cursed them to know no rest until their oaths were fulfilled.

Aragorn later arrives, and has the oaths of the Dead Men of Dunharrow fulfilled so they can rest in peace. The GC may have sworn an oath to Aegon, but after he dies in the Dance of Dragons 2.0 they will be back where they started. After R+L=J is revealed, Jon, like Aragorn, may have the GC fight at the Wall, fulfilling their oaths to the Targaryen king and ending their exile.

[mrunderhill]

Crackpot:

They were exiles and sons of exiles, dispossessed and unforgiven . . . yet formidable fighters still

The men of GC had originally sworn oaths to the Targayen kings, and betrayed him when Daemon rose in rebellion, this resulted in them being exiled from Westeros. This brings to mind the Dead men of Dunharrow who swore an oath to Isildur, and when they betrayed Isildur, he cursed them to know no rest until their oaths were fulfilled.

Aragorn later arrives, and has the oaths of the Dead Men of Dunharrow fulfilled so they can rest in peace. The GC may have sworn an oath to Aegon, but after he dies in the Dance of Dragons 2.0 they will be back where they started. After R+L=J is revealed, Jon, like Aragorn, may have the GC fight at the Wall, fulfilling their oaths to the Targaryen king and ending their exile.

No the Golden Company swore to put a son of Daemon Blackfyre on the throne. It actually makes little sense that they are helping the Aegon the son of Rhaegar. It's more likely Aegon is really a Blackfyre. They have no oaths to the the Targaryen kings, but to the Blackfyre pretenders. Jon is not a Blackfyre so it would not help them fulfill their vows.

[Ürglõvi]

The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die.

I have always seen this line as tribute to Gandalf's speech about Gollum:

Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.

[Fire Eater]

No the Golden Company swore to put a son of Daemon Blackfyre on the throne. It actually makes little sense that they are helping the Aegon the son of Rhaegar. It's more likely Aegon is really a Blackfyre. They have no oaths to the the Targaryen kings, but to the Blackfyre pretenders. Jon is not a Blackfyre so it would not help them fulfill their vows.

Well who were the original Blackfyre supporters sworn to before Daemon Blackfyre even rebelled, as the oath is to their king as well as liege lord, and who were the kings at the time? That oath was broken when they rose alongside Daemon.

I know Aegon is a Blackfyre, and Isaid after he dies Jon might go to them. They may not support Dany after she killed Aegon, but Jon offers another option given that House Blackfyre is exterminated, they (members of houses who supported the Blackfyres) might fulfill their oaths to the Targaryens.

[drayrock]

I started this thread after a conversation with Jon's Queen Consort on the parallels Jon has with Aragorn. I now see plenty of LOTR influences/homages in ASOIAF.

Aragorn is descended from the Kings of Gondor, and Jon is descended from the Targaryen kings, that part is obvious. Aragorn's mother was descended from the first chieftain of the Dúnedain Aranarth, the rightful King of the Northern Kingdom, and takes after his mother in her Dúnedain coloring with grey eyes and dark hair. Jon's mother is descended from the first King in the North, and takes after her in her Stark coloring with dark hair and grey eyes.

The Elendils left Numenor, the highest human civilization that fell to a cataclysmic event, before the island was swallowed by the sea, and kept what would be the last line of White Trees, a mystical tree from Numenor and the island's signature tree that became the sigil of House Elendil, the kings of Gondor.

The Targaryens left Valyria, the highest human civilization that fell to a cataclysmic event, before the Doom came and much of the peninsula was swallowed by the sea, and kept the last dragons with them, dragons being the signature creatures of Valyria. The dragon would become the sigil of House Targaryen, the kings of Westeros.

Ancalagon the Black, was the largest and mightiest of the winged, fire-breathing dragons in Middle Earth, and he was said to be so large that his wingspan was able to blot out the light of the sun. Balerion the Black Dread was the largest of the Targaryen dragons in Westeros, and he was said to have a wingspan so vast that entire towns would be covered up in his shadow when he flew overhead.

If there are other influences from LOTR, please bring them up.

Reek is for sure George's gollum.

I see a ton of similarities between Aragon faramir and bormoir to characters in the stories. Faramir reminds me of Jon snow in that he is a man of the people and democracy who has a very loved royal brother by the lords. Much like Jon and robb

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

No Gandalf parallel?

[mrunderhill]

Well who were the original Blackfyre supporters sworn to before Daemon Blackfyre even rebelled, as the oath is to their king as well as liege lord, and who were the kings at the time? That oath was broken when they rose alongside Daemon.

They would argue they were fulfilling their oaths and trying to put the rightful heir of Aegon IV, Daemon Blackfyre on the throne.

I know Aegon is a Blackfyre, and Isaid after he dies Jon might go to them. They may not support Dany after she killed Aegon, but Jon offers another option given that House Blackfyre is exterminated, they (members of houses who supported the Blackfyres) might fulfill their oaths to the Targaryens.

I don't think we do know Aegon is a Blackfyre. Why would the Golden Company support people they consider to be usurpers? Isildur cursed the men of Dunharrow, because they did not fight against Sauron as they promised. After 3000 years they eventually fulfill their oaths and scare away the Corsairs. If there is any comparison, the Golden Company will keep the oath Bittersteel made by placing a Blackfyre on the throne.

[Morienthar]

No Gandalf parallel?

There haven't been any true Kingmakers in the series up until now the closest is probably Jon Arryn.

[mrunderhill]

No Gandalf parallel?

Melisandre is the closest to Gandalf, except Gandalf pretends to be less powerful than he is, where as Melsandre pretends to be more powerful than she is.

[Fire Eater]

They would argue they were fulfilling their oaths and trying to put the rightful heir of Aegon IV, Daemon Blackfyre on the throne.

I don't think we do know Aegon is a Blackfyre. Why would the Golden Company support people they consider to be usurpers? Isildur cursed the men of Dunharrow, because they did not fight against Sauron as they promised. After 3000 years they eventually fulfill their oaths and scare away the Corsairs. If there is any comparison, the Golden Company will keep the oath Bittersteel made by placing a Blackfyre on the throne.

Aegon is a Blackfyre, all the hints point to it. The GC supported Daemon who was a Usurper, and I don't think all the Blackfyre supporters believed the rumor of Daeron's parentage. The GC never broke their oath to the Blackfyres.

[Frey family reunion]

No Gandalf parallel?

The closest is probably Bloodraven/the three eyed crow. Bloodraven leads and tutors Bran to fulfill his destiny. Remember when Gandalf returns as Gandalf the White and seems to have trouble remembering his name? It's awfully similar to when Bran finds Bloodraven in the cave.

Also Gandalf is inspired by Merlin who is inspired by Odin. Likewise Bloodraven, one eyed and speaker to ravens is also inspired by Odin.

[Queen of Whores]

I wonder who good ol' Tom Bombodil's ASOIAF equivalent is.

[Ürglõvi]

I wonder who good ol' Tom Bombodil's ASOIAF equivalent is.

Howland Reed? :D

Just a gut feeling.

[nenya~]

No Gandalf parallel?

Jon Snow is Gandalf

"They're down there and we're up here," Jon said, "and so long as we hold the gate they cannot pass. They cannot pass!" (aSoS, p. 720)

...

They might be the dregs of the order, but they were men of the Night's Watch, or near enough as made no matter. That's why they shall not pass. (aSoS, pp. 721-722).

Gandalf

‘You cannot pass,’ he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. ‘I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass.’

...

‘You cannot pass!’ he said.

And the NW oath

I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men.

:lol:

[Khal Shaggydog]

Im a big fan of both series, and obviously more of the books than the screen adaptations (although if someone would pay for the production and time to actually put all the details onto screen, I might be swayed...)

I like the parallel of the dwarves mining so greedily and deep in Moria that it brought on their own doom, by creating a fissure in the earth that allowed for the emergence of the Balrog. Similar to the Valyrians mining too deep that they brought about their own destruction. (Off topic - similar the to Cataclysm brought about by extreme arrogance in the Dragonlance series).

One of my favorite themes of LOTR is the tragedy that comes along with not respecting nature - which we are starting to get an inkling of is ASOIAF, but not too much. CotF and their nature-power of the Weirwoods is somewhat similar to the natural power of the ents, but not too much. Would that we could solve all of our ecological disasters by breaking a few dams and soothing the earth, but GRRM is right in that just isn't the case in reality.

Although I love them both, ASOIAF is way more relatable to an adult human world (minus the purely fantasy elements), but LOTR is great as it was intended - stories for Tolkeins grandchildren.

[Morienthar]

No Gandalf parallel?

There haven't been any true Kingmakers in the series up until now the closest is probably Jon Arryn.

Melisandre is the closest to Gandalf, except Gandalf pretends to be less powerful than he is, where as Melsandre pretends to be more powerful than she is.

The closest is probably Bloodraven/the three eyed crow. Bloodraven leads and tutors Bran to fulfill his destiny. Remember when Gandalf returns as Gandalf the White and seems to have trouble remembering his name? It's awfully similar to when Bran finds Bloodraven in the cave.

Also Gandalf is inspired by Merlin who is inspired by Odin. Likewise Bloodraven, one eyed and speaker to ravens is also inspired by Odin.

We've each answered for three aspects of Gandalf here.

[gmk]

ASOIAF is largely a subversion of, and answer to, LOTR's take on the fantasy genre. Particularly morality.

So LOTR's biggest influence is by being the thing GRRM tries his best to subvert. In the process, he's made what will likely be seen as the second best fantasy series behind Tolkien's works. Well played.

Yes, this.

LOTR has fantasy dwarves. ASOIAF has an actual dwarf.

Aragorn knows he is Isildur's heir. Jon has no idea who he is.

Gandalf comes back to life more powerful and noble than before. Cat comes back twisted and consumed by vengence.

[Fire Eater]

The wildlings call themselves "the free folk"; which is the name given to races of men, elves, hobbits and dwarves in LOTR.

[King of Winters]

If the Others are First Men, then it would be similar to the Orcs, as the Orcs were once elves, tortured and mutilated by Morgoth. So the Others could be similar to this if they were once First Men turned into Others by ice magic.