When does Stannis get his just reward?

[Centrist Simon Steele]

I mean, I see a lot of Stannis love around here, and sure--his black magic probably got Joffrey killed and all, but that does not outweigh the fact that his evil magic killed Robb Stark. He is no friend of the north and Mors Umber needs to put a blade in Stannis' righteous asshole as soon as they take back Winterfell.

And before we say there is no proof Stannis and his red lady's magic killed the three "fake" kings, just remember--he named all three, and all three are now dead.

Screw Stannis. This thread is a reminder that he is an awful, awful person and deserves whatever horrible fate comes. Carry on.

[Ran]

his black magic probably got Joffrey killed and all, but that does not outweigh the fact that his evil magic killed Robb Stark

Well, technically, Melisandre saw their deaths in the flames and then she pretended that her spell would make that come to pass, as a way of convincing Stannis to do what she wanted. That said, the intent was there: Stannis was using sorcery with the intent of assassinating his enemies.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Well, technically, Melisandre saw their deaths in the flames and then she pretended that her spell would make that come to pass, as a way of convincing Stannis to do what she wanted. That said, the intent was there: Stannis was using sorcery with the intent of assassinating his enemies.

Is that how it happened? I admit that it has been years since Storm, but I thought it was much more recently.

Do you think Martin lets Stannis escape a kind of karmic justice for his dark magic crimes, at least Renly if not the others, in Winds of Winter? I feel like Stannis' storming of Winterfell and his potential implication in Robb's death won't go unnotice by the old gods.

[Arya_Ghostface]

Well, if you look at it from Stannis' point of view, those three were throne pretenders, people who had no right to claim to be kings and who had to be killed as traitors. Given the fact that Stannis doesn't like Ned Stark as much as other characters, it even looks like he doesn't even respect him as much. So for Stannis, Robb is no better than Joffrey.

Not sure if he's going to get just reward for the leeches (though I agree with Ran it's probably Mel pretending) , but from a moral point of view it's not as if Stannis is Ramsay Snow.

[Phoenix21]

My question is then who does care about the North?

Daenerys doesn't, I doubt she has even thought about the North before. Aegon doesn't, he is just worried about capturing King's Landing and figuring the people will follow. Cercei certainly doesn't, besides she is basically all that remains of House Lannister of Casterly Rock, she should be hiding under it to protect her family legacy. The only one to help the North since Robb's death is Stannis. Robb was technically in rebellion and Stannis (even if he played a part in their death which he didn't) was the rightful King and he couldn't let the realm break apart. Robb is dead and there is nothing they can do about it now, the only option of gaining any power again is to sit Stannis on the Iron Throne, not to mention that he will also know about the frail Nights Watch and supply them with everything they need.

[Veltigar]

Wow, IMO Stannis is one of the least grey guys in the series. He might be an unconventienal hero, but he's a hero nontheless. If he had the choice then Stannis would never have used magic (it was of course Mells forshadowing but Ran has already said everything about that), he would have been happy to fight them on the battlefield.

Remember, they choose their own death when they decided to claim a crown for themself (of course Robb had noble intentions but Stannis didn't know that). Stannis is the rightfull heir (this would go both way of course, if Dany comes back and burns him to sinders (don't think that it will happen), then I would say that Stannis had it coming because he tried to steal her crown)

[Centrist Simon Steele]

My question is then who does care about the North?

Daenerys doesn't, I doubt she has even thought about the North before. Aegon doesn't, he is just worried about capturing King's Landing and figuring the people will follow. Cercei certainly doesn't, besides she is basically all that remains of House Lannister of Casterly Rock, she should be hiding under it to protect her family legacy. The only one to help the North since Robb's death is Stannis. Robb was technically in rebellion and Stannis (even if he played a part in their death which he didn't) was the rightful King and he couldn't let the realm break apart. Robb is dead and there is nothing they can do about it now, the only option of gaining any power again is to sit Stannis on the Iron Throne, not to mention that he will also know about the frail Nights Watch and supply them with everything they need.

I feel like after rereading Jon's chapters in ADWD that it is clear he going to become Jon Stark and Martin is trolling us with the "death" scene because we all know it, and we all expect it, and Martin has done a great job of kicking us in the nuts in terms of our past expectations. I think Jon Stark and Winterfell will even happen in Winds. Not sure how that leaves things with Bran and Rickon but if Bran turns into a tree ala Troll 2, and Rickon stays super nuts like a new improved Joffrey, then Jon is all we have for the North when it comes to Starks. I also think the North will continue to be their own independent kingdom but that won't come until a later book.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Wow, IMO Stannis is one of the least grey guys in the series. He might be an unconventienal hero, but he's a hero nontheless. If he had the choice then Stannis would never have used magic (it was of course Mells forshadowing but Ran has already said everything about that), he would have been happy to fight them on the battlefield.

Remember, they choose their own death when they decided to claim a crown for themself (of course Robb had noble intentions but Stannis didn't know that). Stannis is the rightfull heir (this would go both way of course, if Dany comes back and burns him to sinders (don't think that it will happen), then I would say that Stannis had it coming because he tried to steal her crown)

Whether or not the leeches were real, Stannis still allowed Mel to birth that horrible shadow baby to murder his brother. That's about as unheroic as it gets. Robb Stark or Ned or Jon, for example, would never do that to their enemies.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Brace yourselves. E-Ro's wrath is coming.

[Veltigar]

Whether or not the leeches were real, Stannis still allowed Mel to birth that horrible shadow baby to murder his brother. That's about as unheroic as it gets. Robb Stark or Ned or Jon, for example, would never do that to their enemies.

Ned and Robb wouldn't, I agree with you on that. Ned and Robb are also as dead as a doornail.

The same reasoning goes up for Renly as well. He off all people should have stayed true, but he didn't, he stole his brothers army and his crown. And Renly clearly had no problems with taking Stannis life, because he knew that it would come to that when the fighting would start. Stannis just did what every (wo)man with half a brain would do and that's using the tools he had to make the best out of a shitty situation (which he didn't even cause).

[neil555688]

Whether or not the leeches were real, Stannis still allowed Mel to birth that horrible shadow baby to murder his brother. That's about as unheroic as it gets. Robb Stark or Ned or Jon, for example, would never do that to their enemies.

Remember Renly owed Stannis feilty both because he is Roberts rightful heir and he is the head of house Baratheon. By crowning himself he betrayed Stannis under Westrosie law. Furthermore Renlys crown would never be safe while Stannis lived, therefor Renly would of had to either kill him or force him to take the black in order to secure is claim. The shadow baby was his only real choice because Renly not only refused to compromise but was preparing crush Stannis's smaller force in the morning and have him killed, thus the killing of Renly was not only justifiable but his only means of self defense available

[Tyryan Lannister]

While everything you point out is absolutely true about Stannis, it still can't change one simple fact:

Stan's the Man.

He's simply one of the most sarcastic, comical characters in the series (I swear every other thing he says I start laughing out loud at) and getting rid of him would just suck away way too much comic relief around him. I mean, I can't wait for a scene where it's Stannis, Tyrion, Jon, and Littlefinger trying to actually work together and get something done--the sarcasm would be so thick you could cut it with a knife.

Does Stannis deserve a karmic death and what not for his actions? Most definitely, and in the end he likely will. I just hope (for comedy's sake) that it doesn't happen until near the end of the series.

[Chocolate_dream]

Robb Stark was an idiot who brought upon his own death. Go re-read the book if you don't believe me.

[W.Kane]

as other said , all the pretenders (Joffrey, Robb , Balon) to the throne died at the hands of their so-called friends , families or something other than those worthless leeches.

Stannis also didn't kill Renly , Mel told him I saw Renly's death in the flames , she didn't tell him how he will die. anyway Renly's death was inevitable , he was a usurper and a dishonorable traitor who was going to kill his brother and steal his crown , he had it coming.

before we say there is no proof Stannis and his red lady's magic killed the three "fake" kings, just remember--he named all three, and all three are now dead

Screw Stannis. This thread is a reminder that he is an awful, awful person and deserves whatever horrible fate comes. Carry on.

when those pretenders declared themselves kings , they singed their own death sentences. so, also Stannis didn't kill those pretenders , he would if he could and also he should . because they were traitors. unless they would bent the knee.

Stannis is the rightful king , it is his duty to punish the traitors and protect the union of the realm. so he is by no means a bad guy .

[Nezzer]

This thread is blasphemy! BLASPHEMY! Forgive him, R'hllor, for he doesn't know what he says.

[Runaway Penguin]

Mel did nothing re. three deaths. She is a con woman for a large part, the leeches was one part of it.

Blackwater is kinda karmic revenge for Renly.

[RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon]

The first Shadow baby that kills Renly, Stannis doesn't know that much about. He's never done it before and we don't know what Mel said to him about it. It could have been that she saw his death in the flames. All he knows is he had a nightmare that night of killing Renly and that Renly died the next day how he saw. He's had nightmare since about it and Renly's peach and seems genuinely remorseful for Renly.

As people said, his magic didn't kill Robb, Mel forsaw it. He doesn't believe in the Red God and is sceptical of magic. Stannis isn't stupid, he could know that Mel was BS about the leeches but it made his cause look damn good infront of his followers (considering this was after the blackwater he needed something like this to stop an all out desertion).

[Independent George]

His just reward? Well, hopefully he'll have secured the Throne by the end of WOW, so he can unify the kingdom in the fight against the Others.

What, did you mean to imply something else?

[Trqrrhmn]

as other said , all the pretenders (Joffrey, Robb , Balon) to the throne died at the hands of their so-called friends , families or something other than those worthless leeches.

Stannis also didn't kill Renly , Mel told him I saw Renly's death in the flames , she didn't tell him how he will die. anyway Renly's death was inevitable , he was a usurper and a dishonorable traitor who was going to kill his brother and steal his crown , he had it coming.

when those pretenders declared themselves kings , they singed their own death sentences. so, also Stannis didn't kill those pretenders , he would if he could and also he should . because they were traitors. unless they would bent the knee.

Stannis is the rightful king , it is his duty to punish the traitors and protect the union of the realm. so he is by no means a bad guy .

From your view, Joffrey was right in executing Ned.

[The Red Star]

The events that led to the 3 pretenders deaths were already well in motion by the time Stannis burned the leeches, if it was that easy to have someone killed, tommen, myrcella and cersie would be long dead, Melisandra put on that sharade to make herself seem invaluble.

From your view, Joffrey was right in executing Ned.

Ya Joffery was dead right to kill Ned, from his point of view he was king and Ned was trying to steal his throne