Comics VI: Sinister Six

[Lady Octarina]

The Changing Face of Cyclops

Indeed...

Oh, Bendis, those wren't even published that long ago!

[Sci-2]

Honestly, Cyclops acting like an asshole in Children's Crusade also didn't make sense to me.

eta:

Not that we hadn't worked this out already but this interview with Joe Kelly about quitting X-men while Harras was EIC nails things. We all know what happened to Marvel when they essentially had the editors writing the book. They almost imploded until someone saw the sense of getting someone who was a creator minded involved. Hopefully DC will eventually fire Harras and get someone else on board. Not sure who though. Maybe they'll offer it to Waid at some point?

There's only 4 issues of Batman Inc. Multiversity and GM's Wonder Woman aren't likely to be affected. So probably no reason to care what DC does as long as Vertigo is untouched :-P

[Lady Octarina]

Honestly, Cyclops acting like an asshole in Children's Crusade also didn't make sense to me.

I think they exaggerated, but considering everything the X-Men had gone through since Day M, it's understandable, really.

But hey, new meme! I think we can all agree on this, at least.

[Winterfell is Burning]

Honestly, Cyclops acting like an asshole in Children's Crusade also didn't make sense to me.

Children's Crusade was a big fanwank to Wanda, so it required everyone else to be an asshole or an idiot to work.

[red snow]

I think they exaggerated, but considering everything the X-Men had gone through since Day M, it's understandable, really.

But hey, new meme! I think we can all agree on this, at least.

The "mutant" thing was a bit stupid, especially since Morrison's run tried to establish it as a word to be proud of. Mutants should appropiate it. Although i guess from the sense of them wanting to highlight they are human it's fine. In which case they shouldn't have been too worried about saving mutants from extinction as they never existed? Mutant race should be fine but i guess i may be upset if I was in a race with a label that insinuated something bad. Thing is mutations are also responsibly for all the good things so it's a glass 99% empty vs 1% full kind of thing.

You know what the real reason is?

Failsafe against the next time Wanda/editorial goes mad :)

Maybe Wanda and Cyclops should hook up. They have a fair bit in common and Wanda can claw his way back from being hated by everyone.

For the readers of uncanny (i never bothered) has there been any mention of Cyclops being a popular figure for the average joe? I recall in interviews with Bendis and alonso that many saw Cyclops as the guy that worked miracles and while the heroes that knew the truth hate him, everyone else thinks he's a good egg. I suspect that was them making shit up to placate the angry cyclops fans because I'd think the meteor showers would have pissed off the average Joe too.

[Lady Octarina]

I don't remember Cyclops ever being a popular character even within the universe they live in, not as much as Bendis is trying to convince us he is, at least. Magneto was always the one to have a crazy cult following, but now they turned the best X-character into an irrelevant bald powerless old man, so I know nothing anymore.

I get what they're trying to do with Havok rejecting the use of the word "mutant" as a way to oppose his kind of leadership to Cyclops' in that universe, which will probably lead to some silly family drama in a few months when both uncanny groups meet, but it's so completely anachronistic it' no wonder people are getting offended by that. I mean, it reminds me of that popular ideological position in the first half of the 20th century (in Latin America, at least, I don't know if it was used elsewhere) that, to fight racism, pretty much denied the existence of any races by claiming, in that particular context, that every person was the product of miscegenation (which in the X-verse would be that "we're all humans" or something). It's a valid point of view that made sense back then, but these days it's considered in itself a kind of racist speech - if Havok rejects the word without giving a different one to define them, he seems to be rejecting that part of his identity altogether, so how could he be representing mutant interests and fulfilling what that group of Avengers is supposed to be about?

I love most of the things Remender is doing in Uncanny Avengers, but unless Havok's speech is a way to create future tensions and disagreement between him and the other mutant members, one can't help but start agreeing with his brother here.

Maybe Wanda and Cyclops should hook up. They have a fair bit in common and Wanda can claw his way back from being hated by everyone.

Now, dear sir, you're just trying to make me puke. :ack:

[red snow]

I don't remember Cyclops ever being a popular character even within the universe they live in, not as much as Bendis is trying to convince us he is, at least. Magneto was always the one to have a crazy cult following, but now they turned the best X-character into an irrelevant bald powerless old man, so I know nothing anymore.

I get what they're trying to do with Havok rejecting the use of the word "mutant" as a way to oppose his kind of leadership to Cyclops' in that universe, which will probably lead to some silly family drama in a few months when both uncanny groups meet, but it's so completely anachronistic it' no wonder people are getting offended by that. I mean, it reminds me of that popular ideological position in the first half of the 20th century (in Latin America, at least, I don't know if it was used elsewhere) that, to fight racism, pretty much denied the existence of any races by claiming, in that particular context, that every person was the product of miscegenation (which in the X-verse would be that "we're all humans" or something). It's a valid point of view that made sense back then, but these days it's considered in itself a kind of racist speech - if Havok rejects the word without giving a different one to define them, he seems to be rejecting that part of his identity altogether, so how could he be representing mutant interests and fulfilling what that group of Avengers is supposed to be about?

I love most of the things Remender is doing in Uncanny Avengers, but unless Havok's speech is a way to create future tensions and disagreement between him and the other mutant members, one can't help but start agreeing with his brother here.

Now, dear sir, you're just trying to make me puke. :ack:

I think you're right in that Remender has drama in mind with the speech. Hopefully someone other than cyclops will point out it was offensive or at least misguided.

I seemed to mess the Cyclops/Wanda sentence up. I meant she was able to claw her way back from being hated by everyone (although a lot of characters still have trouble with her) and could give him some tips on how to improve his image. I guess the difference is Wanda felt sorry for what happened whereas Cyclops is fairly "I was justified". I guess one event killed thousands and the other restored thousands of lives back to "normal".

[Sci-2]

I hate being "that guy" but I think it's been clear for awhile now that the dudes writing AvX and its fallout don't have a good handle on modern race issues.

[Nephrite]

I hate being "that guy" but I think it's been clear for awhile now that the dudes writing AvX and its fallout don't have a good handle on modern race issues.

What? Those white guys? Preposterous.

[red snow]

Judging by the bleeding cool article, I'd guess issue 6 or 7 of "uncanny avengers" might be delayed while they retcon/justify Havok's speech. It seems to have upset a few folks.

[Sci-2]

Heh, they can't just erase it at the end of AoU?

[Winterfell is Burning]

I don't remember Cyclops ever being a popular character even within the universe they live in, not as much as Bendis is trying to convince us he is, at least.

Since the main reason Bendis is giving for his popularity is him trying to build a better world, coupled with his (in the public's POV) sudden, unexpected depowerement with being thrown in jail without a trial in sight, I don't see any conflict with previous characterization.

[Lady Octarina]

Judging by the bleeding cool article, I'd guess issue 6 or 7 of "uncanny avengers" might be delayed while they retcon/justify Havok's speech. It seems to have upset a few folks.

I don't think the speech was the main problem. Well, yeah, most X-readers hated it, but people only seemed to have felt truly offended at Remender's reaction on Twitter ("kill yourself"? "Havok's shiny red dick"? "drink hobo piss"? Really, Remender?). Yes, most of the tweets he received were either trollish or people accusing him of racism, but if he had just written a general statement on how that's the character's position, not his, instead of trying to defend an anachronistic position things might not have gotten this out of hand. It also surprises me that people reacted that strongly only now, considering he had already talked about how "mutant" is a taboo word for Havok weeks ago on interviews.

I almost feel bad for Brevoort having to deal with this even on his Tumblr, but at least his answer to someone's question seems to confirm the idea is, indeed, to have this develop into a storyline in the comics.

Heh, they can't just erase it at the end of AoU?

Hey, this reminds me, I innocently asked Brevoort on Tumblr whether or not AoU would result in a retcon on Pym's wife-beating history. He didn't answer. :cool4:

[red snow]

I don't think the speech was the main problem. Well, yeah, most X-readers hated it, but people only seemed to have felt truly offended at Remender's reaction on Twitter ("kill yourself"? "Havok's shiny red dick"? "drink hobo piss"? Really, Remender?). Yes, most of the tweets he received were either trollish or people accusing him of racism, but if he had just written a general statement on how that's the character's position, not his, instead of trying to defend an anachronistic position things might not have gotten this out of hand. It also surprises me that people reacted that strongly only now, considering he had already talked about how "mutant" is a taboo word for Havok weeks ago on interviews.

I almost feel bad for Brevoort having to deal with this even on his Tumblr, but at least his answer to someone's question seems to confirm the idea is, indeed, to have this develop into a storyline in the comics.

Hey, this reminds me, I innocently asked Brevoort on Tumblr whether or not AoU would result in a retcon on Pym's wife-beating history. He didn't answer. :cool4:

Remender handled it very unprofessionally. I'm honestly surprised his editors (Breevort?) or Marvel PR didn't contact him as soon as they caught whiff of this shitstorm brewing. I did think Remender was the kind of guy who could handle it better though even though I can imagine being accused of being racist could make one angry.

As for surprise at people getting so angry; in the uk most of the "moral outrages" gain momentum once it's reported. The vast majority of pissed off complainers never even see/hear/read the material first hand, A pitfall of modern media. People are far more likely to register negative opinion than a positive one eg the people who read uncanny avengers may have on the whole really enjoyed the issue but that's something a non-reader can't jump on board,

I haven't read the whole issue and while I think it's an-ill chosen sentiment I'm willing to suspend outrage until I see where the story is going. I'm not calling into question Remender's beliefs as he is writing fiction and that idea may well have been an editorial one. It does seem out of character as Bleeding Cool demonstrated but again maybe he is towing some PR line? Maybe being two-faced is part of the Summers' make-up?

could the AOU "fix" be "no more no more mutants" :P

[Sci-2]

Damn, I didn't realize people were that upset. But people claiming Remender was homophobic because he told people to suck Havoc's dick are being ridiculous.

[Nephrite]

Remender handled it very unprofessionally. I'm honestly surprised his editors (Breevort?) or Marvel PR didn't contact him as soon as they caught whiff of this shitstorm brewing.

Why should they? They are a bunch of frat-boys over there. Fuck, Brevoort is maybe the worst. They'll handle this the way they handle everything: heads in the sand.

DC All Access panel. It's a misnomer cause they really don't tell you anything you didn't read in the solicits and if you actually press them about something they get all passive-aggressive and defensive like little girls.

Seriously, these panels are a waste of everyone's time. Unless you are a cosplayer that lives for that hallow moment when Dan DiDio gets ou on the stage so he can hide the fact that he would rather be anywhere but there.

The Collider image had me excited thinking the book will finally be out, but the actual report doesn't even mention it. Maybe it was part of the "This Could've Been Vertigo If We Didn't Abandon That Imprint To the Cold Freezing Death Of Eternal Notcare" slideshow.

The rest of the panel was Scott Snyder's usual spiel that makes it really hard for me to be exited for his books. That mix of humble pie ("Aw shucks, I hope you like it. Marry me!") and best thing ever ("I worked on it really hard, so it's a future classic") that grates me for no particular reason but it still does. Zero Year is different from Year One cause they changed the number and switched the order of words, y'all.

He also says how Jim Lee is doing stuff that he never did before which is pure bullshit cause Jim Lee hasn't done anything new with his art since 1992. If you gave me a copy of Snyder's script to read I could imagine what the final product would look to a 95% accuracy. Those 5% is a variable relating to how crosshatch happy Jim Lee is on that particular day, if Scott Willaims can be arsed to tighten it and if Alex Sinclair is in the mood to homage late 90's animated GIFs. It relates to weather conditions, the Lakers standings and speed of a heartbeat of a kid in Nebraska. It's all very scientific, I have graphs and pie charts that explain it all.

But, you know don't take my word for it. Here's Jim Lee doing things artistically.

Yeah, it really looks like something Jim Lee never did. Sure, it is splattered over for fucking pages as gimmicks usually are and Superman's torso is... off but it's still Jim Lee, artistically.

[red snow]

Damn, I didn't realize people were that upset. But people claiming Remender was homophobic because he told people to suck Havoc's dick are being ridiculous.

I think he deserves points for such a childish response (to what are probably increasingly childish insults). I don't know how Havok's powers work but that could possibly be very dangerous. I guess if their plan was to make HAvok a noticeable character they have achieved it :)

DC all access. I'm still entertained by Snyder-talk. His books are amazing they're stand alone but fit into the larger tapestry,classic yet modern and he always has "that one story he'd do on a given character" and then does 2-3 more. I'm sure if Snyder did write a phonebook it would be classic, modern, work as a standalone but be respectful to existing phonebooks and it would be the one phonebook he'd always wanted to write. And it would have four page fold-out sections. I'm looking forward to a special event where each comic can be origami folded into something relevant to the comic - Batman issue folds into a batmobile, Superman issue folds into fortress of solitude, Justice league watchtower/hall of justice etc, etc. I bet they wish they still had oracle for a birds of prey issue. Well, that's the september event sorted.

I'm curious as to what Snyder exactly meant by this though.

"Year One" really wouldn't be able to stand with the current New 52 continuity"

So he's basically saying "year one" didn't happen in the new 52? In which case he can't be not replacing that story. It could be an opportunity to make sense out of Batman's "how the fuck did he get through that many Robins and conceive and have a teenage child fight alongside him within the space of 5 years" problem.

Despite all that Snyder was still the most interesting person at the panel. Robinson seems to be doing fine being left his own little universe to play with. Maybe he'll have Damian Wayne as Batman over in earth-2?

[Sci-2]

So apparently Hank Pym survives in a post AoU book, Avengers AI.

I wonder if AoU is doing really badly because it seems like they've been reducing possibilities for the super secret ending each passing week.

I still think that wife slapping incident gets erased, though Disney could just say the movie Hank isn't the book version when the Giant Man toys come out.

[Nephrite]

So apparently Hank Pym survives in a post AoU book, Avengers AI.

Not written by Waid, fuck it.

[red snow]

Not written by Waid, fuck it.

I was hoping it was going to be written by Ali G with the "Ai" title. i'm not that impressed by the title although with the right approach it could be fun. There should be a bunch of LMD all being pissed at being set up for being killed constantly. Or some Sentinels whining about how in the x-men cartoons they are the only ones who Wolverine is ever allowed to cut up into tiny pieces. There does seem to be a feeling in comics that it is ok to kill AI or that it isn't as bad as killing a biological life. If they touched on those kinds of things it could become interesting. Instead I suspect it will be a highly redundant Avengers title.

I agree that Marvel are like some child with a secret, desperately wanting to let things slip. Maybe all robots in the marvel universe will gain sentience? So all the LMDs and Sentinels and Iron Man armours will become "people"?

Speaking of which, what happened to Cerebro/Cerebra? Shouldn't she be on the team? Or is this still a case of "don't be a friend of Cyclops"?