Game of Thrones Episode Titles

[bardgal]

I have always been in the camp which puts the PW at the end of this season. The final scene of the season is Tyrion's arrest.

Oberyn and Tyrion's scenes just get shifted from Tyrion being tour guide to Tyrion being prisoner.

Tyrion's trial (and the tension between Dorne and Highgarden) becomes the major KL storyline for season 4. Jaime's evolving face turn also is in KL.

The end of Ep 9 is Arya getting KO'd. We get one scene of the Hound riding off with her laying across the back of his horse (dead or alive?). They may tie that in with zombie Catelyn. (Bringing her back to life in a new season would seem cheap).

Pretty clearly Dany gets two cities this season, which leaves the biggest city (with battles) for Season 4.

I am also in the camp that books 4 and 5 will show up significantly in Season 4. Arya needs something to do. Are they going to throw away the Iron Men for two full seasons and then bring them back? Theon needs to still be in the show..

Totally agree.

[Abaddon]

I can't wait until every thread doesn't get derailed with a "PW or not PW, that is the question" discussion. Seriously, it's everywhere...

(Of course that won't be until S3E10 end credits roll, or slightly before... so we have a ways to go :ack: )

[Dementia]

Oberyn having a 'Ned'-arc in Season 4 would work very well for the story. If his character was expanded and beloved by the audience, then it would make the introduction of the Martells and the reaction of Dorne generally would be much easier to comprehend.

The trial would only be one aspect of the 'big' episode, as it would surely include Tyrion's escape and the consequences of that. It would also round the season off nicely as Tyrion would board a boat, Varys would disappear and Cersei would assume power - all of these could occur in the final episode.

I think the PW needs to be in one of the first few episodes. I know timelines are screwy, so I could be wrong...but doesn't Tyrion *need* to be in at least Pentos by the middle of season 4? If he doesn't get to Illyrio until season five, that puts his story line a whole book behind everyone else.

We're introduced to Aegon season 5? Then Jorah kidnaps Tyrion...enslaved...Second Sons. I guess it could work, I don't think it would screw with any other timelines. Would season 5 be enough time to have Cersei's decline? Probably...

[Abaddon]

doesn't Tyrion *need* to be in at least Pentos by the middle of season 4?

No. Some predict that will happen but I think that's rushing things terribly. (Others will say my vision of ending S10 at the end of ASOS as far as Tyrion/Sansa/Littlefinger/Jon go, at least, will be dragging things too much. Opinions, y'know).

I think Ep3 would be a great place for the PW, personally. I could see it in Ep2. Ep1 would be too rushed.

[protar]

I think the PW needs to be in one of the first few episodes. I know timelines are screwy, so I could be wrong...but doesn't Tyrion *need* to be in at least Pentos by the middle of season 4? If he doesn't get to Illyrio until season five, that puts his story line a whole book behind everyone else.

We're introduced to Aegon season 5? Then Jorah kidnaps Tyrion...enslaved...Second Sons. I guess it could work, I don't think it would screw with any other timelines. Would season 5 be enough time to have Cersei's decline? Probably...

I'm not getting you. Surely if he's in Pentos by mid-S4 he'd be ahead of everyone else? He doesn't get to Essos until the start of ADWD, the main plotlines of which will start in S5 along with AFFC.

[Lord Varys]

It makes little sense to start the AFfC/ADwD stories of most characters in season 4. Certainly not Tyrion's, Sansa's, Jon's, Cersei's, Jaime's, or Samwell's.

Season 4 should end with

- Tywin and Shae dying

- Tyrion's escape

- Lysa's death

- The Battle for the Wall and Jon's election to Lord Commander of the Night's Watch

They should/could integrate the Ironborn story from AFfC from Balon's death to the Kingsmoot in season 4. This could be a very good arc, if they do it right. There could also be some Dornish scenes, although I think the Myrcella plot should be postponed to season 5. It They might also have Arya start her voyage to Braavos in the middle of season 4. That way we could expand the stuff in Braavos in seasons 5 and 6.

But Dany should also not enter all that far into ADwD territory in season 4. They could slow her arc down by inventing and adding new stuff, or by prolonging the whole conquest of Meereen thing.

Bran could also meet Bloodraven in season 4. I'd end his arc in season 4 with him meeting Lord Bloodraven under the cave. This meeting could coincide with Jon's election to Lord Commander. After all, Bloodraven seemed to have warged into the Old Bear's raven to ensure Jon's election.

Season 5 then could explore quite a lot of background and the past of Westeros through Bran's visions.

[Abaddon]

LV I agree with all of this, except:

Bran could also meet Bloodraven in season 4. I'd end his arc in season 4 with him meeting Lord Bloodraven under the cave. This meeting could coincide with Jon's election to Lord Commander. After all, Bloodraven seemed to have warged into the Old Bear's raven to ensure Jon's election.

Bran's arc is going to be very difficult to handle, to be sure. But I can't imagine D&D burning all of the material (what there is of it) through the end of ADWD by the end of next season.

Season 5 then could explore quite a lot of background and the past of Westeros through Bran's visions.

D&D have to this point been very firm about not doing flashbacks. I don't really see that changing. And frankly a season of Bran having a glorified history lesson in the middle of AFFC/ADWD just doesn't seem like a good idea.

[Abaddon]

[EDIT] Removed dup

[legba11]

Mostly I agree, LV. Those all go at the end of Season 4. Some of the other material needs to get bumped up just to keep the actors in the show. In books you can write off characters for years, not in television as they are real people with real jobs. They have established the Greyjoys much more than the books did in parts one and two. You can't now flush these characters down the hopper for 2 years. Theon is one of the stars of the show, though I will note he isn't in the posters (Neither is Tywin, though). They need to keep him on the show and in viewers minds.

Brienne's "Don Quixote" quest might as well get rolling in season 4, or she is going to do nothing in 4.

They are going to need serious padding to keep Arya in the show for season 4 without tapping into AFFC. How many scenes of The Hound drinking and her not escaping do we want to watch? They can easily rewrite the inn scene, but they removed most of the impact from it by killing The Tickler and having her keep Needle. (Did she keep it when they fled?). I think it's possible the Hound's infection comes from his fight with Beric (or the RW fighting) and he "dies" the next episode. (Episode 1 of season 4?)

[Dementia]

Maybe I'm just not thinking time-wise clearly. I figured S3 would pretty much wrap up ASoS for Arya, Catelyn, Jon/Stannis, and Dany. Putting most of S4 of their plots in AFfC/ADwD territory...the fourth books. But if S4 for the King's Landing crew just finishes up ASoS...that would put them a book behind.

I'm not sure how you introduce any of the Dornish (besides Oberyn) before S5. But I'm not a script writer!

[Lord Varys]

Arya lost Needle in the show. It was Polliver who kept it, if I'm not mistaken. The guy at whom she stared at when Lord Tywin arrived at Harrenhal. She has to get it back, which means we are going to get a version of the inn scene in season 4. They won't have her travel to Braavos without her Needle.

Brienne's quest could (at least in part, say, tracking down the outlaws who hacked off Jaime's hand - if they are smart, Rorge and Biter will be a part of Locke's gang next season!) to Jaime and Brienne while they are on their way to King's Landing. If the Purple Wedding will be in episodes 4-5 of season 4, Jaime and Brienne will have to do something before they arrive at KL after Joffrey's death. Brienne should get her quest for Sansa afterwards, but we don't need all the stuff from those chapters in seasons 5-6.

I'm intrigued about Asha being in season 3. This may indicate that season 3 will get a good share of invented stuff. But I do hope we won't get Balon's death next season. This scene would hang completely in the air, especially since we don't seem to get Victarion, Euron, or Aeron next season. Perhaps we are going to see Asha taking Moat Cailin to prevent Robb from returning home. The whole thing about Robb and Cat only learning about Bran and Rickon's deaths in season 3 may have a major impact there. Cat seems to be all on revenge mode, and the Greyjoys may react to that.

On Bran's arc:

Well, they would have to work with flashbacks as soon as Bran is transformed into a tree who can watch past events in real time. They won't be able to give us that through dialogue. And Bran is not going to leave the cave after he has arrived there. So I think there is a good chance that we are going to get soe flashbacks after all. In fact, they may have actually cut the flashbacks from season 1 because GRRM told them they could work them in later on much better. We have to keep in mind that the weight of history will be much harder when we reach season 5 then it is right now. Not just because we are going to meet Aegon and Jon Connington, explore the enmity between the Martells and the Lannisters, dig into Varys and Illyrio's friendship, but because of the whole Others business. I'm quite sure we are going to get the answers on the nature and past of the White Walkers through Bran's visions. And if they are going to introduce the concept of flashbacks either way at this time, they would do well to use it to explore certain past events as well...

[Dementia]

Arya lost Needle in the show. It was Polliver who kept it, if I'm not mistaken. The guy at whom she stared at when Lord Tywin arrived at Harrenhal. She has to get it back, which means we are going to get a version of the inn scene in season 4. They won't have her travel to Braavos without her Needle.

Totally. She'll have to get Needle and refuse the Hound. Even if they show her on the boat, I just can't imagine all that taking a full season.

Jon/Stannis. I'm guessing S3 ends with Stannis's arrival at the wall. Maybe the could make the rest of the ASoS plot fit the whole season. The defeat of the Wildings, Jon's "treason", election and letting the Wildings pass.

I wouldn't want them to rush Tyrion into getting to Pentos, but I'm just curious how they'll handle everything. I'm probably totally wrong and they'll slow down the pace for S4 for all the other characters and include more of ASoS.

[Lord Varys]

Stannis is never going to the Wall in season 3. That would make no sense. It has already been confirmed by D&D that they are going to prepare the next major battle for the end of season 4. Which will be the Battle for the Wall. The battle between thousands of wildlings and Stannis beyond the Wall. And Stannis arriving there and saving everybody's ass will have to be the major surprise of season 4. A mirrored version of the mad twist at the end of 'Blackwater' only with Stannis saying 'The battle is over. We have won.' The Battle for the Wall has been in preparation since last season. This will be the next major battle, not the Conquest of Meereen.

To preserve this, they will have to keep Stannis journey a secret. And they can't make Stannis disappear for a complete season which is why Stannis will still be on Dragonstone in the beginning of season 4.

I'm not even sure if Jon is going to return to Castle Black in season 3. They could very well end his arc at Queenscrown.

[Abaddon]

I'm intrigued about Asha being in season 3. This may indicate that season 3 will get a good share of invented stuff. But I do hope we won't get Balon's death next season. This scene would hang completely in the air, especially since we don't seem to get Victarion, Euron, or Aeron next season.

I think you mean "this season"?

Well, they would have to work with flashbacks as soon as Bran is transformed into a tree who can watch past events in real time. They won't be able to give us that through dialogue. And Bran is not going to leave the cave after he has arrived there. So I think there is a good chance that we are going to get soe flashbacks after all. In fact, they may have actually cut the flashbacks from season 1 because GRRM told them they could work them in later on much better. We have to keep in mind that the weight of history will be much harder when we reach season 5 then it is right now. Not just because we are going to meet Aegon and Jon Connington, explore the enmity between the Martells and the Lannisters, dig into Varys and Illyrio's friendship, but because of the whole Others business. I'm quite sure we are going to get the answers on the nature and past of the White Walkers through Bran's visions. And if they are going to introduce the concept of flashbacks either way at this time, they would do well to use it to explore certain past events as well...

Yeah, I just don't see them using flashbacks. They've been very firm in that regard to this point. I wouldn't hold out hope for a whole storyline to suddenly become completely flashback-based, personally.

[Abaddon]

To preserve this, they will have to keep Stannis journey a secret. And they can't make Stannis disappear for a complete season which is why Stannis will still be on Dragonstone in the beginning of season 4.

Agreed Stannis won't go to the wall in S3. However, I don't see why they have to show Stannis at Dragonstone in S4 too. He can remain off-screen until he suddenly shows up at the Wall in S4. They can set that up in S3 easily enough, with a few hints here and there. In particular I think we'll see Davos reading the letter from Jon this season.

I'm not even sure if Jon is going to return to Castle Black in season 3. They could very well end his arc at Queenscrown.

We know Pyp filmed for a single day, and Pyp was left behind at Castle Black. I don't see why they would show Castle Black without Jon. He'll make it back to the Wall this season, likely in the final episode.

[protar]

To preserve this, they will have to keep Stannis journey a secret. And they can't make Stannis disappear for a complete season which is why Stannis will still be on Dragonstone in the beginning of season 4.

Actually I think Stannis will leave in S3 E10. Then his whereabouts will be a bit of a mystery for S4 until he turns up for the last few episodes at the Wall. I don't really see a problem with that so long as it is treated like a mystery (e.g everyone in KL being "where's Stannis gone, Dragonstone is deserted.). The problems with leaving characters out for long periods of time are often due to contracting reasons which wouldn't be a problem here as Dillan and co would have scenes for S4.

Also there's not really anything for Stannis to do during S4.

[YouSnowNothing]

Random thought on Arya's storyline - what if it dealt with the rape of the Saltpans? Assuming her S4 arc is about her travels with the Hound, it makes sense for the plot to relate to him. Then instead of Arya killing some random from two seasons ago at the inn, she can murder Rorge, the villain of this subplot.

I'm not sure how you introduce any of the Dornish (besides Oberyn) before S5. But I'm not a script writer!

There's no reason why Arianne can't tag along to Kings Landing with Oberyn. They can share some invented scenes to establish their relationship and Martell motivations, and set up Arianne's plot for S5.

[bardgal]

It makes little sense to start the AFfC/ADwD stories of most characters in season 4.

Why not? That's when they happen.

The latter part of ASOS, AFFC, and most of ADWD all happen simultaniously.

I dont understand why so many people are married to events in order as they appear in the books, instead of how they happen in time chronologically.

It's not hard to follow the way the books are written, because you can go back and look stuff up, and refresh what happened 1200 pages ago.

Non-book readers need to follow events as they happen. I don't see D&D starting a season, "One year ago in Pyke...."

[Tom son of Tom]

It makes little sense to start the AFfC/ADwD stories of most characters in season 4. Certainly not Tyrion's, Sansa's, Jon's, Cersei's, Jaime's, or Samwell's.

Season 4 should end with

- Tywin and Shae dying

- Tyrion's escape

- Lysa's death

- The Battle for the Wall and Jon's election to Lord Commander of the Night's Watch

.

I think Lysa dying should be the last scene. Being pushed out the window after admitting she killed Jon Arryn would be a great way to end it I think. That is how this whole "Game" started, for most characters anyways.

[Currawong]

I'll bet that they do start quite a number of the AFFC / ADWD stories in S4 - they have never said that ASOS takes up two entire seasons. Watch the interview with Bryan Cogman about how the writers are approaching the overall storyline from ASOS onwards. Some of the discussions about the rights and wrongs of including the PW in S3 seem purely focused on the KL storyline, without taking sufficient account of the various parallel stories, the likelihood that they may shift a few things around if it makes a better story for TV, and also that the writers are highly likely to include additional scenes if they feel it is necessary to flesh out certain characters/plotlines or provide backstory through dialogue rather than dreams/flashbacks.

I agree with Lord Varys:

Well, they would have to work with flashbacks as soon as Bran is transformed into a tree who can watch past events in real time. They won't be able to give us that through dialogue. And Bran is not going to leave the cave after he has arrived there. So I think there is a good chance that we are going to get soe flashbacks after all. In fact, they may have actually cut the flashbacks from season 1 because GRRM told them they could work them in later on much better. We have to keep in mind that the weight of history will be much harder when we reach season 5 then it is right now.

Not only did GRRM tell them that flashbacks may work better if done later in the series, he also said that they will need to deal with some of the ToJ backstory and related issues 'at some stage'. So it would seem they will need to include some dream sequences from Bran at various points through Seasons 3-5 - and yes, I am naturally assuming we get S4 and 5 at least :)

I don't think there is any need to have the PW at the end of S3. Maybe they can just end the season as far as the KL plotline by showing Sansa getting fitted into her wedding dress, or even her brief conversation with Tyrion. For me, the wedding and Joffrey's death would make a wonderfully dramatic start to S4, and would be a great change from current expectations that 'major deaths always occur in Eps 8 or 9'.