The Others invasion

[Naughtius]

Aren't they taking their time? IN the prologue of AGOT we see them when it's not full blown winter but in ADWD winder has well and truly come to the north so they should be fairly close to the wall by now.

[Aerys_The_Mad_King]

The beginning of TWOW is the perfect time to strike. And yes, the wall has to crumble, no way they can come from the sea: they'de be "cut off" from the lands of always winter by the wall. TEAR DOWN THE WALL! And pretty early in the books, too.

[Queen Elsa]

If the Others don't make it to at least KL I will be upset. It has to impact the South otherwise, while it's been fun to read about what's going on down there...you know, it could have been a much shorter series.

I will be upset too. High lords/ladies of Westeros don't give a damn about the NW but maybe if the threat of the Others reach their castles and homes, they will cry out, "Save us, brothers of the NW!" or they will start sending their army to the Wall instead of aiding a king/queen who eagerly wants to sit on the IT.

[thunder_chicken]

What Night's Watch? I can't imagine they are going to be able to do anything besides send another tragically-unheaded warning. The power of the NW was never much to begin with, and if the Wall is gone, they will be next to useless (and mostly dead through infighting and attrition).

I can imagine a point in which Sam is the only surviving member of the NW.

Dany's eunich army will replace the NW whenever she finally makes it to Westeros.

[aryagonnakill]

What Night's Watch? I can't imagine they are going to be able to do anything besides send another tragically-unheaded warning. The power of the NW was never much to begin with, and if the Wall is gone, they will be next to useless (and mostly dead through infighting and attrition).

I can imagine a point in which Sam is the only surviving member of the NW.

Dany's eunich army will replace the NW whenever she finally makes it to Westeros.

Interesting thought, it would seem the perfect job for them. They would undoubtably not be use to the cold, but there are men from Dorne on the wall.

[bertramboso]

I think the attack has already begun, given the note Jon receives from the Eastwatch men at Hard Home, and Mormont mentioned somewhere, well back in the series, reports of "White Walkers" on the shore around the Wall. Maybe they can infiltrate at certain points?

My guess is that the success or failure of the Others and their blitzkrieg (or lack thereof) somehow depends on the survival of the Starks-the lineage is so deeply tied to the fate and history of the North, that I can't see them winning when a Stark survives. Given that five Starks survive, I don't see the Others sweeping all before them. Unfortunately, as I'd love to see Jon fall before an onslaught of pure evil.

[bertramboso]

Also, one thing i'm curious about is the role Varys might play in the fight against the Others. Obviously he's been essentially a practitioner of macht politik so far, but I'm reminded of that conversation he had with Tyrion where he vents his spleen against magic and states that he intends to destroy any practitioners of magic if he can. Granted, he was talking about Stannis and Melisandre, but the Others are nothing if not magical, of a certain sort, what with their necromancy. Varys as an FDR or Churchill-type figure making the squabbling factions get it together and roll back the invasion?

[Tini]

I'll be less surprised if I find out that Varys has been working for the Others right from the start. The vision (was it Moqorro's?) of the small man with a large shadow, snarling at Dragons, makes me believe that it will be Tyrion who will make the squabbling factions work together. He knows Lannisters and Tyrells, the Starks, Jon and the Night's Watch, Aegon and Connington. He is likely to meet Daenerys next.

If the Wall crumbles, it might not destroy the Night's Watch. On the contrary, it might become fashionable again to join the Watch. After all, the Night's Watch knows how to fight the White Walkers.

[Winterz]

After all, the Night's Watch knows how to fight the White Walkers.

No, they know how to kill them. But they also lack that sort of material.

[Petyr Patter]

Aren't they taking their time? IN the prologue of AGOT we see them when it's not full blown winter but in ADWD winder has well and truly come to the north so they should be fairly close to the wall by now.

Saying the Others take their time to invade is like saying an Oak tree takes its time to grow big. The Others are either immortal or close to it, are building an army that neither requires food nor gold and grows larger with each victory. I don't think they would worry about invading South of the Wall until every scrap of meat North of it is under their control.

[Vangelis Matos Medina]

I agree with this opinion. We just don't know who the Others are and what they want to do. We do know that the Wall's magic will not allow them through, Coldhands couldn't pass under it (though the wights who attacked Commander Mormont were carried through the Wall as corpses no problem, which is interesting). I don't see the Wall coming down either. I think if there is such a thing as a horn that can bring the Wall down, that is currently sitting safely with Sam in Oldtown and nobody knows what it can do.

Having said that, I would like to see a Dragons vs. Others battle, maybe some Others will trickle through the Wall in some way. It won't take many to terrorize the hell out of the southerners, especially if they don't know how to fight them. So the Dany vs. Others at the Trident is still a possibility, even with the Wall intact.

As for the cold Jon Snow feels, blood carries heat, if someone is bleeding there is no means for the body to heat up and they will inevitably feel cold. Especially at the Wall where it's cold anyway.

Dragons x Others, I hope Danerys land in the north.

[~No One~]

I think the attack has already begun, given the note Jon receives from the Eastwatch men at Hard Home, and Mormont mentioned somewhere, well back in the series, reports of "White Walkers" on the shore around the Wall. Maybe they can infiltrate at certain points?

My guess is that the success or failure of the Others and their blitzkrieg (or lack thereof) somehow depends on the survival of the Starks-the lineage is so deeply tied to the fate and history of the North, that I can't see them winning when a Stark survives. Given that five Starks survive, I don't see the Others sweeping all before them. Unfortunately, as I'd love to see Jon fall before an onslaught of pure evil.

Yeah, the whole "there must always be a Stark in Winterfell" is said way too often for it not to be significant.

Maybe someone in Oldtown steals the horn Sam has, blows it, the Wall comes down, the Others invade. By the end of the series, Stannis has taken Winterfell, and Davos returns with Rickon, which coincidentally happens at the same time the Others are defeated by Drogon & Co.

[MaesterSamwell]

Great way of comming into "your" kingdom :P

You never know I guess, but wasn't that horn already sounded at the kingsmoot? The other question that springs to mind is: will it make any difference whether the horn blower is in sight of the wall? It would be pretty weird if someone in Oldtown-following the Sam has the horn that will bring the wall down theory- or in meereen would blow the horn and thousands of leagues away the biggest structure on earth comes rubling down.

I am confused on this that nothing happened. As I look through what different people have said is the chronology of ADWD and AFFC, it seems that the chapter where Euron's guy blows the horn at the kingsmoot is very close to the time where Drogon kind of goes crazy and leaves Dany. I think there is something to the horn and when he blew it at the kings moot it could have unbinded Dany to Drogon (to an extent). If I am way off please let me know, but timeline-wise it could very well be close in timing. I think Euron's horn has a major role to play in Dany's dragons finding their riders (just not in the way that Euron or Victorian think).

Maybe people will only fully realize it at the end of WOW, but I think the crumbling has already started. The people at the Wall will realize it first. Enormous magical energies were used to create the Wall, and the Night's Watch is somehow involved in keeping it intact.

Thanks to Melisandre we know that human sacrifice raises large amounts of power, and royal blood is much more powerful than that of commoners. Edric Storm, maester Aemon, Mance's son... and Jon Snow. Jon is king's blood, too, descended from the Stark kings in the North, and possibly from the Targaryen kings as well. If Robb named him heir, one can even argue that Jon is a king. He is related to Bran the Builder, and he is Lord Commander of the Night'S Watch. Now the Night's Watch betrayed him, sacrificed him right next to the Wall. I'll be disappointed if that doesn't have any effect on the Wall.

I kept thinking of this as well. If R+L=J (or even the crazier A+L=J) then they are sacrificing him and would play right into the blood magic thing Mel has going on. I think we may see Sam find something (kind of like Marewyn does) that drives him back to the wall (to save Jon and save the wall somehow). I am not sure it has to do with the horn he has or something else. On the topic of the others invasion, I agree that they are already invading and that was foretold by the Maesters of Oldtown sending out the ravens that Winter was here. I think the Others could only survive in the South (and most of North) if it was winter. Will the Wall come down? I don't think so. I think Samwell saves the day again and saves the wall. I think Bran has a large role to play and Sam is the only person who knows he is still alive and close to Jon. If a raven (or tree or whatever Bran wargs into) really appeared to Jon as his brother Bran, Jon would be skeptical. With Sam knowing he survived the original sack of Winterfell (and the only one other than Rickon and Osha who does), Sam has to get back to the wall to validate Bran for Jon. Also I think one Marewyn reaches Dany, she will end up real quickly at the wall (just like Stannis towards the middle of ASOS). It will probably happen after the battle of Mereen and expect her to realize that the real fight is saving the world from the others. Sorry so long-winded.

[Rashtibram]

The Wall needs to come down, I think. I'm also with the Heretics in thinking that there's a lot more to the conflict with the White Walkers than a simple good vs. evil, dragons vs. others climax. As Ygritte has said, the Wall is evil; dividing the realms of men and blocking out the entire world north of the wall. I think it coming down will be the climax of TWOW, happening very near the end and ultimately resolving the Game of Thrones in collective dread and fear, paving the way for ADOS to deal with what the series has always been about: A Song of Ice and Fire.

How will it come down? Sam's horn in Oldtown. After hearing about Jon's "death", he races back up to the Wall and eventually, with the help of all the ancient knowledge of Oldtown, realizes that the Wall is in fact evil and blows his horn, thereby sacrificing himself for the good of the realm.

I also agree with the posters who said that the Others are only one threat, and this is where I tend to agree with the Heretics; the Red Priests seem to me to be just as evil, and could be the dark side to the 'Fire' aspect of the series' title. I think that especially in the final book, we'll get a thorough exposition of both the White Walkers and the magic of the north, and the magical dealings of the far east including the Doom of old Valyria, the FM, and the religion of Rhllor from the shadowlands beyond Asshai.

ETA: I can totally imagine an epilogue to TWOW featuring Sam as narrator, as the Wall goes down killing everyone on it and around it; epic cliffhanger and a very, very satisfying ending to what will no doubt be a great book.

[aryagonnakill]

Saying the Others take their time to invade is like saying an Oak tree takes its time to grow big. The Others are either immortal or close to it, are building an army that neither requires food nor gold and grows larger with each victory. I don't think they would worry about invading South of the Wall until every scrap of meat North of it is under their control.

It is said directly in AGOT and probably else where, and is definitely supported by the Others actions, that the Others feed their undead soldiers the blood of babies.

I am confused on this that nothing happened. As I look through what different people have said is the chronology of ADWD and AFFC, it seems that the chapter where Euron's guy blows the horn at the kingsmoot is very close to the time where Drogon kind of goes crazy and leaves Dany. I think there is something to the horn and when he blew it at the kings moot it could have unbinded Dany to Drogon (to an extent). If I am way off please let me know, but timeline-wise it could very well be close in timing. I think Euron's horn has a major role to play in Dany's dragons finding their riders (just not in the way that Euron or Victorian think).

Drogon ran away when the Unsullied tried to capture him 3 times.

[Rashtibram]

Yes, let the Others row a boat to KL! Just like

Gendry in the last ep.

Row, row, row your boat...

How is that a spoiler lol.

[Rashtibram]

I agree that Martin's desire is to subvert the typical fantasy story, but that leads me to the conclusion that the others are always going to be a sidebar to the story and never mount a giant invasion in the first place. Because the others are fundamentally magical, and Martin is mostly telling a story about men.

I think it's basically Bran's role to defeat them so they don't actually invade. Which means Bran is really the hero of the story, but of course, nobody will ever actually see or know what he's done because the invasion itself is stopped and he's a crippled boy stuck merging into a tree. Which is exactly the sort of subversion of the fantasy ideal that GRRM wants. Magic and heroism have their price. And Bran is the obvious vessel for that as a wielder of powerful magic who dreamed of a heroic life. Well, he's going to live one, but he's paying the price for it.

I think you're right that Martin is trying to subvert the typical fantasy layout, but that doesn't mean it's going to be anticlimactic. I also don't agree that this is a story about men. I think there will be an epic magical conclusion, just not in the way that typical fantasy storys do them. The best way for this to happen is if the Heresy threads are right, and the Others are not the true enemy, but there's a difference between subverting the typical fantasy epic and telling a bad story. Bran simply defeating the Others quietly and unobtrusively would be very anticlimactic and not a worthy ending to such a brilliant story. There needs to be a conclusion which draws in most of the characters, the ones with roles to play playing them, the others dying off.

[The Dragon has three heads]

They need to invade a cause enough damage so that it's common knowledge they're back.

But Bran saving the world-or having a large part in it while others take the credit, seems like GRRM to me.

[Ghost's Shadow]

How is that a spoiler lol.

Made you click. :P

No, I tagged it because it's from a very recent ep and it's not the ep forum.

[Blood of the Flagon]

I just want to know how they will subvert the wall