wolfmaid7 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 No. Well thank you for "your" explanation :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementia Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Everyone is a latent warg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Grumpy Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Well thank you for "your" explanation :cool4:Oh, I'm sorry. I think you have to be a First Men to be a warg ? Am I wrong ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementia Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 And they're all also hidden Targaryens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Endrew Tarth Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 No.My sentiments exactly lol...There is no textual evidence to support a warg or warg-like connection. maybe there is a "dragonlord" connection as you are asserting (OP), but it is far from being a warg or skinchanger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Oh, I'm sorry. I think you have to be a First Men to be a warg ? Am I wrong ? That's why i said substitute Warg/Dragonlord. Plus only the Starks seem to have special bonds with wolves, hence only they seem to be Wargs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Grumpy Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 That's why i said substitute Warg/Dragonlord. Plus only the Starks seem to have special bonds with wolves, hence only they seem to be Wargs.Ok. Skinchangers are all come from the North/Beyond the Wall. Only Targaryen skinchanger that we know is half-Blackwood, and Blackwoods are First Men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 My sentiments exactly lol...There is no textual evidence to support a warg or warg-like connection. maybe there is a "dragonlord" connection as you are asserting (OP), but it is far from being a warg or skinchanger. Lets agree that you and i differ from there being " no" textual evidence.I think that no one can say except drawing on Dragonlore myths which i am on- what a "Dragonlord" is, and more what their abilities are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Others Take Ya Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Oh, I'm sorry. I think you have to be a First Men to be a warg ? Am I wrong ?How are we supposed to know if you're wrong or right? GRRM hasn't explained it definitively yet. So that means the possibility is there. Since she locked up her dragons while they were still young and Drogon took off on her its entirely possible she just hasn't been with them long enough to grow the same abilities with them as they've aged. Its possible that it takes the animal reaching a certain age before the abilities start to manifest and the wolves and Starks had a head start on maturing compared to Dany and her dragons by a full book.My sentiments exactly lol...There is no textual evidence to support a warg or warg-like connection. maybe there is a "dragonlord" connection as you are asserting (OP), but it is far from being a warg or skinchanger.Dany and her dragons independently show signs of experiencing the same angry feelings at the same time even though they are apart at Astapor. That's characteristic of a warg. The only way that can't be true is if the dragon babies would fully understand who the slavers were when they come to see them in the ship and that would mean they have enough human language and already hate slavery even though they've never encountered it before to grasp the situation and be angry about it. I think its an even bigger stretch to say the latter is the case then the former.The problem is the evidence in the text will naturally be harder to come across since we only have one character pair on the dragon side with only Dany's and recently Barristan's pov. On the wolf side we had a full 6 pairs and many povs to show you their behaviors. When the one pair is separated early on too that also dries up the opportunities.I don't think ruling out the ability to dragon-warg or twarg or whatever you want to call it can be done at this point in the story. I don't think there is enough evidence to properly know it.edit: droped a letter, clarifiededit 2: Just remembered we have a quentyn pov too, though he only sees Dany and the dragons together for one short conversation so that's not much either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen H'gcarl Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Which mother would not cry if she sees her child stabbed?Up to now, we have no evidence that others as first men descendants have skinchanging abilitiesThis.. sorry but it feels like really far fetched and unnecessary topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey family reunion Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 First of all you can be a "warg", i.e. have a supernatural connection with an animal, and not be a skinchanger. At the beginning, Bran and Jon (and probably Robb) both showed an ability to have a supernatural connection with their direwolves without being able to enter and exert control over the animals. Bran developed the ability to skinchange over time while being tutored by the three-eyed crow and Jojen. It took Jon a lot longer to possibly develop this ability with Ghost, and even then he couldn't do it will. (that may have changed at the end of ADWD or so Jon fans hope). I would agree that Dany probably was not born with this ability. I think that the blood magic ritual and the Drogo's funeral, though, gave her a bond with at least one of these dragons (it appears to be Drogon) that approximates the Stark children's bonds with their direwolves. Does this mean that Dany may in the future be able to "enter" Drogon like a skinchanger would? Who knows? But I think the Valyrian dragon riders had to have a magical bond with the creatures that went beyond using whips and commands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Endrew Tarth Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Lets agree that you and i differ from there being " no" textual evidence.I think that no one can say except drawing on Dragonlore myths which i am on- what a "Dragonlord" is, and more what their abilities are.Ok. I hope I'm not coming off as disrespectful, I just didn't see much point to the discussion, and it's like the thread title is goading me lol. :cool4:This.. sorry but it feels like really far fetched and unnecessary topic.Thank you, I think this is what i've been subtely trying to get across in my posts here. I like your approach, blunt but polite. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey family reunion Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Ok. I hope I'm not coming off as disrespectful, I just didn't see much point to the discussion, and it's like the thread title is goading me lol. :cool4:Thank you, I think this is what i've been subtely trying to get across in my posts here. I like your approach, blunt but polite. :cheers: I find the importance of this issue goes into the significance of the rituals that led to the hatching of the dragons. Whether those rituals shed light on how the Valyrians originally "tamed" their dragons to become dragonriders. If the "dragonhorn" was lost in Valyria how did the Targareyans create new dragonriders after they conquered Westeros? Was a similar ritual used by Maegor, Jaeherys, ect. to create more dragons? Does this help to explain why the dragons died out? If these rituals could be used to approximate what a skinchanger or a warg can do, could these rituals have been used for purposes in addition to the creation of dragonriders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen H'gcarl Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 :cheers: :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Endrew Tarth Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I find the importance of this issue goes into the significance of the rituals that led to the hatching of the dragons. Whether those rituals shed light on how the Valyrians originally "tamed" their dragons to become dragonriders. If the "dragonhorn" was lost in Valyria how did the Targareyans create new dragonriders after they conquered Westeros? Was a similar ritual used by Maegor, Jaeherys, ect. to create more dragons? Does this help to explain why the dragons died out? If these rituals could be used to approximate what a skinchanger or a warg can do, could these rituals have been used for purposes in addition to the creation of dragonriders?That's interesting, I'll add one more. If this pyre incident is close to a hatching ritual used by Valaryans, then is that what Dunk and Egg tried to emulate at the tragedy of summerhall?Anyways that's a good thread starter right there, pretty thought provoking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Ok. I hope I'm not coming off as disrespectful, I just didn't see much point to the discussion, and it's like the thread title is goading me lol. :cool4:Thank you, I think this is what i've been subtely trying to get across in my posts here. I like your approach, blunt but polite. :cheers:Now i don't mean to be disrespectful but neither of you have to post or visit it fine by me. My point to this thread was to propose their is a possibility that "Dragonlords and their ability are similar in some ways to Warging.Not the exact same thing but close enough where it merits a closer look.If any of you have some knowledge of the exact abilities of the Valaryan Dragonlords please do,otherwise don't just dismiss it because you can.1. Dany has a connection with the Dragons; they feel when each other is near; please don't say maternal instinct else it would never be possible that i can sneak up and scare my mother so many times.2. I'm not going to dismiss that pit incident as maternal either, it was specific to indicate that she felt his pain( it hurt her)3. I'm not going to dismiss M.Aemon's assertion to Sam that the Sphinx IS the riddle not the riddler and what does the Valaryian Sphinx look like human head dragon body.So in my mind he's asking how can they exist as one,he really wanted to go to her to help her .He probably knew a lot more than she does.4. The last point is in the existent of the Dragon horns themselves, used to do what? I'll let you think about that.The point of the thread was to explore the possibility that Wargs "can" be similar to Dragonlords in certain respects.If you don't get it no loss see you on another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulled Wino Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 This.. sorry but it feels like really far fetched and unnecessary topic.Here freakin here!!!!!!Damn First Men shoulx have warged Aegon's dragons to begin with. We wouldnt have all this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLE Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Well. The word "warg" is often used improperly to mean skinchanger, but I'd have thought that anyone who knows their Tolkien would HAVE to know that Warg means something to do with Wolves (and, indeed, the word originally comes from Old Norse, and specifically means wolf.) Even though the usage is different - GRRM, a sort of lifetime bond with the one wolf: JRRT, a specially large, ferocious, semi-intelligent and evil breed of wolf. But there is no way that the word "warg" can mean anything but specifically "wolf", as distinct from any other animal. Words mean things.So, someone who has a similar bond with a dragon... is not a Warg. They may be the dragonish equivalent, if there is a word for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Well. The word "warg" is often used improperly to mean skinchanger, but I'd have thought that anyone who knows their Tolkien would HAVE to know that Warg means something to do with Wolves (and, indeed, the word originally comes from Old Norse, and specifically means wolf.) Even though the usage is different - GRRM, a sort of lifetime bond with the one wolf: JRRT, a specially large, ferocious, semi-intelligent and evil breed of wolf. But there is no way that the word "warg" can mean anything but specifically "wolf", as distinct from any other animal. Words mean things.So, someone who has a similar bond with a dragon... is not a Warg. They may be the dragonish equivalent, if there is a word for it.That pretty much what i said a page ago ,the title was just because... well what word would you put for someone who can bond with a Dragon...I just called them a dragonlord which seems the most appropriate.But it wasn't enough to convey the similarities of which i was speaking between what the Starks do with what i believe the Targs could have done before the doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pollo Loco Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Now i don't mean to be disrespectful but neither of you have to post or visit it fine by me. My point to this thread was to propose their is a possibility that "Dragonlords and their ability are similar in some ways to Warging.Not the exact same thing but close enough where it merits a closer look.If any of you have some knowledge of the exact abilities of the Valaryan Dragonlords please do,otherwise don't just dismiss it because you can.1. Dany has a connection with the Dragons; they feel when each other is near; please don't say maternal instinct else it would never be possible that i can sneak up and scare my mother so many times.2. I'm not going to dismiss that pit incident as maternal either, it was specific to indicate that she felt his pain( it hurt her)3. I'm not going to dismiss M.Aemon's assertion to Sam that the Sphinx IS the riddle not the riddler and what does the Valaryian Sphinx look like human head dragon body.So in my mind he's asking how can they exist as one,he really wanted to go to her to help her .He probably knew a lot more than she does.4. The last point is in the existent of the Dragon horns themselves, used to do what? I'll let you think about that.The point of the thread was to explore the possibility that Wargs "can" be similar to Dragonlords in certain respects.If you don't get it no loss see you on another thread.I agree that Dany and her dragons have a magic bond, but the Starks kids were having wolf dreams months after they found the direwolfs, until Dany experiences some sort of consciousness through Drogon your argument is weak and the Varamyr distinction is false as Arya has skin changed into a cat and Bran a bird and they still have a connection to their wolves. I had a thought, (wouldn't necessarily call it a theory) that the dragon lords used fire and blood magic to copy the skin changers, but i doubt they would be able to do more than bind the dragon to a specific person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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