Guess who knows where Tysha is . . .

[YOVMO]

On March 28, 2013 at 9:12 PM, nekrohsis said:

There's a theory that the Sailor's Wife, a prostitute in Braavos, is actually Tysha, as evidenced by her trick of wedding the men who bed her, her fluency in the Common Tongue, and her daughter, the golden-haired Lanna (for Lannister?) who is the right age to be Tyrion's daughter. Keep in mind, if her daughter is Tyrion's (she could have well been pregnant even before the gang-rape) the girl is Tyrion's legitimate heir and Tysha could very well have spent the coins Tywin gave her on the first ship away from Westeros.

 

But if this is true, who's to tell Tyrion? No one in his immediate circle of acquaintances at the end of ADWD would know . . . except . . .

 

Penny. She was performing in Braavos prior to Joffrey's wedding. Since she goes to Volantis after King's Landing, we can assume she's an experienced traveler. But since she's a poor foreigner, she might very likely have stayed at the same brothel--we know it's friendly to Westerosis, and judging by the way the whores treat Arya, it's probably a pretty safe place to stay--Penny's stayed in brothels before, as Littlefinger tells us.

 

Tyrion hasn't told her about Tysha--only Sansa. If he did spill the tale to her, might she point him towards Braavos?

This is all very good. I especially like the Penny connection. However, here is the question that I put to all theories, great and small, tinfoil hat and sensible or even obvious alike: Assuming this is absolutely true in what way does it alter, push forward or add to the story. 

 

Let's say Tyrion tells the story of Tysha and gets pointed to a bravosi whore house where he finds her and his daughter a golden haired lannister whore. Then what? He still has no claim to Casterly Rock. Killing Tywin ended any claims he had to anything Lannister as long as law rules in Westeros as is.

If there is a revolution that he is on the right part of and he winds up Lord of Casterly Rock and Warden of the West, what difference does it make if he is married to tysha and acknowledges a daughter? What difference does it make if he isn't and doesn't, but know they exist? 

If he stays in Essos and never returns to westeros what does it matter that he has found them? Does he settle down and have a nice quiet life as a family man? 

While I like the theory I just don't see how it would make any difference and because it wouldn't make a difference I have a hard time seeing it come to fruition.

On the contrary, having the "where do whores go" motivation towards an aggressive nihilism is a huge mover of both tyrion and the entire cast in Essos. 

[Firefae]

41 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

Even if the Sailorswife is Tysha and her daughter is Lanna. Tyrion may not be the father. Maybe Tywin took some liberties like he did with Shae.

Tywin+Tysha=Lanna?

Then I guess Tysha wouldn't have known Lanna would be Tywin's because she was just being raped half a hundred times, the child could be anyone's then. I assume she thinks it would be Tyrion's.

[Nissa]

The only part that rubs me the wrong way is that she named her daughter Lanna. After what they did to her even if she loved Tyrion initially I don't think she'd name her child after them. At least I wouldn't 

[Lady_of_the_black]

I like this, it's wouldn't be the first time a  child is named after his or her father, like Barra. Can anybody think of more examples?

[tugela]

On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2013 at 7:11 PM, nekrohsis said:

 

Well, his father married his cousin and his siblings have been doing it for years now . . . incest runs in the family.

 

Seriously, if this happens, I will throw up.

Marrying your cousin isn't incest.

[Seams]

On 6/21/2013 at 8:12 PM, Booknerd2 said:

My thing was always:

Barra=Robert Baratheon

Lanna= Tyrion Lannister

Yes. These are the kinds of parallel storylines that GRRM uses to offer us clues and create foreshadowing. This is a major hint that Lanna is Tyrion's daughter by Tysha.

Because Cersei ordered the killing of Bara along with Robert's other bastards (and her mother was killed for resisting, I think) we should expect either a parallel or mirror-image event in the life of The Sailor's Wife and Lanna. In other words, either The Sailor's Wife and Lanna will be put to death by order of a queen, or they will turn the tables and cause the downfall of a queen.

The excerpt where Yna tells Arya that the first husband of the Sailor's Wife is dead, this symbolism has already come true. It is the Sailor's Wife who gives Arya a tour of Braavos and tells her about the statue and temple to the three-headed god, Trios. The first head (or is it the tower on the temple?) represents death, the third represents rebirth and the one in the middle she can't remember. Later, Penny tells Tyrion about one of the dwarfs who was murdered when Cersei put out a reward for Tyrion's head. A friend of Penny and Groat is killed and his body is stuffed into one of the mouths of the Trios statue. So there you have one of Tyrion's several symbolic deaths and its connection to the Sailor's Wife.

Tyrion is definitely a "sailor," now that he has been on the riverboat and the cog. In fact, his story alludes in many ways to the story of Odysseus with its references to Cersei (Circe) and Penny (Penelope), swine and wine. The Sailor's Wife pining for her husband who is believed to have been lost at sea would be very consistent with the Odyssey storyline. But GRRM also uses references to the sea in symbolic ways: the "sea" comes over the walls of Winterfell when the Iron Men invade, and Dany spends a lot of time in the Dothraki Sea. Voyages seem to represent a means to personal growth, whether they take place on the literal sea or on a symbolic sea.

Other characters who seem to have parallels with the Sailor's Wife seem to confirm the Tysha and Lannister and hidden child connection:

• Like Tysha, Lollys is also gang-raped. She gives birth to a child named Tyrion. She also marries Bronn, who is Tyrion's protector. Symbolically, Tyrion has given up his protector to now protect a victim of gang-rape. This seems consistent with Tyrion's regard for Tysha and his wish - too late - that he could have done right by her.
• Salt Wife - Like the murdered baby Bara, Theon has a given name that is half Baratheon. At first I thought this might mean that he is also one of Robert's bastards, but I don't see enough other plot hints or subtext that would support this. Instead, I think we will find that the young woman who lost her virginity to Theon on the ship he sailed to the Iron Islands will give birth to his child. She begged to be his salt wife, which seems similar to being a Sailor's Wife. Similarly, Gerion has a bastard daughter named Joy, another part of Theon's name. Does this mean that we will find a connection between Theon and the word grey, the last part of his name? Will he turn out to be a secret Stark, with all their greyness? Interesting if Theon somehow represents the unity of Baratheon, Stark and Lannister all in one.
• Dornishman's Wife - The lyrics for this song are revealed in a Jon Snow POV, and I think they foreshadow something about his storyline. Since Jon and Tyrion's stories are closely linked, I think the Dornishman's Wife and the Sailor's Wife must represent parallel aspects of their stories. I am only just starting to puzzle out the meaning of the song for Jon's story, but I am wondering whether the Dornishman's Wife actually refers to a weapon of some kind. Areo Hotah, a POV in Dorne, is "married" to his weapon. So the wife as weapon symbolism may hold true for Jon's arc, at least, if not for the Sailor's Wife.
• Rohanne Weber, the Red Widow. This matriarch of the Lannister line marries many times, like the Sailor's Wife, before becoming the mistress of Casterly Rock. Like Tysha, she was a child bride. I think her story ties into more than one character or storyline in the later generations of Westeros but it would be the kind of coming full circle that GRRM seems to like if the high-born grandmother he probably reveres were replaced with Lanna, the daughter of a woman he considers to be a low-born whore. Tysha will get revenge on Tywin by seeing her daughter become the lady of Casterly Rock. This is also cosmic payback for Tywin's humiliating treatment of his father's mistress. Because of the pun throughout the books around hair and heir, Lanna's gold hair does sound like she will become an heir of some kind. Rohanne Weber was famous for her red hair but her first children to survive are born in her Lannister marriage.
• Master of Coin. Littlefinger, the brothel owner, held this title for a long time but Tyrion takes it when Littlefinger leaves King's Landing to go to the Eyrie. Coins are important props in the Tysha story, the names of Penny and Groat, and in Arya's story in the House of Black and White. With the double-meaning around the Lannisters paying their debts, the coins seem likely to represent some kind of pay back for bad behavior. Hard to say who will be paid back and what form that payment might take at this point.

I suspect that one of the bittersweet endings of the series will involve Tyrion and Tysha just missing each other, or one of them dying in the other's arms. But Lanna will get to take possession of Casterly Rock, as I mentioned above.

 

[Elisabetta Duò]

On 28 marzo 2013 at 2:12 AM, nekrohsis said:

There's a theory that the Sailor's Wife, a prostitute in Braavos, is actually Tysha, as evidenced by her trick of wedding the men who bed her, her fluency in the Common Tongue, and her daughter, the golden-haired Lanna (for Lannister?) who is the right age to be Tyrion's daughter

It may be; personally if that's the case, I would prefer if her path and Tyrion's never crossed again, like the reader knows but he doesn't know. 

[Elisabetta Duò]

On 28 marzo 2013 at 3:44 AM, Gannicus said:

That's possible.

 

On 28 marzo 2013 at 4:01 AM, Howling Mad said:

LF knows Tyrion was legally married to Tysha which means Tyrion's marriage to Sansa is void. A voided Tyrion/Sansa marriage is the real diamond here not Tyrion finding Tysha.

It would be really interesting if Baelish knows and could use her to annul Sansa's marriage.

I don't think it works because the Tyrion - Tysha marriage was probably annulled.

Tyrion himself told Sansa that he was married with another woman in the past and he wouldn't have mentioned that if they were still legally married, it would have been disrespectful to Sansa, stupid and it would have given Sansa a weapon to annull the marriage in the future, even after the consummation.

About Tysha, it would be debatable in first place if they were legally married (a drunken septon he payed is not exactly the perfect choice for an inron clad marriage) but anyway, when the drunken septon who married Tyrion and Tysha sobered up, he told Tywin  about the marriage… do you think Tywin did nothing and just sent the girl away?! Tywin was many things but certainly not a fool. He wanted Jamie to tell Tyrion that Tysha was a prostitute because he wanted to annul the marriage without Tyrion objecting and once secured that Tyrion wouldn't object, he obviously ordered the septon to declare the marriage annulled/null/never celebrated, because he was drunk when he celebrated it. I guess in a case like this one (the person who celebrated the marriage was unable to think straight), they didn't even need to go for the High Septon, the confession of the Septon was probably enough. In any case, I don't think the High septon (who was weaker back in the days) would refuse Tywin. Therefore, Tyrion was NOT still legally married to Tysha when he married Sansa.

Tyrion himself always speaks of the marriage in the past tense, even when alone with Tywin. Given the regard he shows for Tysha, if the marriage was never annulled, he would speak of it in the present tense (I am married but my wife is lost to me, something like that) and he would certainly refuse bigamy.

 

[Nevets]

1 hour ago, Elisabetta Duò said:

No this doesn't work because the Tyrion - Tysha marriage was annulled.

Tyrion himself told Sansa that he was married with another woman in the past and he would have mentioned that if they were still legally married, it would have been disrespectful to Sansa, stupid and it would have given Sansa a weapon to annull the marriage in the future, even after the consummation.

About Tysha, it would be debatable in first place if they were legally married (a drunken septon he payed is not exactly the perfect choice for an inron clad marriage) but anyway, when the drunken septon who married Tyrion and Tysha sobered up, he told Tywin  about the marriage… do you think Tywin did nothing and just sent the girl away?! Tywin was many things but certainly not a fool. He wanted Jamie to tell Tyrion that Tysha was a prostitute because he wanted to annul the marriage without Tyrion objecting and once secured that Tyrion wouldn't object, he obviously ordered the septon to declare the marriage annulled/null/never celebrated, because he was drunk when he celebrated it. Therefore, Tyrion was NOT still legally married to Tysha when he married Sansa.

Tyrion himself always speaks of the marriage in the past tense, even when alone with Tywin. Given the regard he shows for Tysha, if the marriage was never annulled, he would speak of it in the present tense (I am married but my wife is lost to me, something like that) and he would certainly refuse bigamy.

 

Not to mention they were both about 13 when they married.  Even in Westeros, 13 year-olds can't get married without parental consent, which they emphatically did not have.  Therefore, there was no valid marriage in the first place.  

And, yes I am aware of the two children of Aegon V who married each other while underage.  Aegon let them stay married apparently because it wasn't worth the trouble to keep them apart.  Not the case here.

[Luddagain]

Penny is too old to by Tyrion's child, as is Lanna (just).

We know that Tryrion is 13 when he meets Tysha

We know that jaime is 8 years older than Tyrion, hence Jaime was 21 when Tyrion meets Tysha

Jaime was 15 at harrenhall when Aegon was conceived and roughtly 16 when the war started and Robb was conceived.

 

Therefore any child of Tyrion and Tysha is roughly 5/6 years younger than Robb and Jon. Arya is about 5/6 years younger so look for someone who is roughly Arya's age.

The ONLY child I can think of who is the right age and of unknown parentage is POD.

[Luddagain]

Now Lanna I think is going to be the rightful heir of Casterly rock, but NOT via Tyrion.  Gerion disaapears to Essos as a SAILOR, just a few years before the Tysha incident.

Lanna is a perfect age to be gerion's LEGITIMATE daughter.  Now since we sort of know that the three Cersai kiddies will not have heirs, Tyrion probably not nor Jaime, we are left with Kevan's kids, then Gerion's.  Lancel is a waste of space so not sure how many there are left.