Why the southron ambitions?

[Night's Watchmen]

According to Lady Ryswell, Rickard Stark's maester Walys(Flowers) whispered such things in Lord Stark's ear. According to wiki Maester Walys promoted them? Who(or which) to believe? And even more importantly, why did he have southron ambitions in the first place? Arranging a marriage between his first son and a Tully girl, sending his second son to be fostered by Jon Arryn(a childless high lord, I should add), and arranging a marriage between Lyanna and Robert? This should form a very big alliance(and it did). But why? Did he see a war coming? Or maesters planned(or saw) a war coming so they intervened? I'm stuck guys and expecting help.

[Im no Ser]

I certainly don't have it all figured out, but:

The alliance Rickard put together ultimately did overthrow the Targs - the Lords Paramount of the North, the Vale, the Stormlands and the Riverlands were all aligned via a network of marriages and that group was the core of Robert's Rebellion. We also know that Aerys was wanred by Varys that Rhaegar was at the Tourney of Harrenhal plotting with several lords to depose him; Robert Baratheon, Brandon & Eddard Stark and Jon Arryn are all confirmed attendees at the tournament.

Rickard was part of a plot to depose Aerys. Varys opposed it, presumably because Aerys' continued reign was in accordance with his ultimate plan to restore the Blackfyres and he would have less influence in a Rhaegar controlled court. As to the Maester's involvement, I think they pull their support when Rhaegar runs off with Lyanna, because - like Rhaegar - they know that the child of that union is TPTWP who will bring about (amongst other things) the restoration of magic which they are trying to prevent. Why they were pushing for it in the first place, and what specifically House Stark was going to get out of this plan I'm less confident about.

[conon394]

what specifically House Stark was going to get out of this plan I'm less confident about.

I doubt that RIckard was in on any the machinations but just like Brandon and his daughter a bit or more reckless and over time he could influenced by whispers to the effect of here you are Warden of the North, one of the oldest and most proud families in the realm and yet you are consider backwater rubes. Your sons need to in the south and in tournaments, your daughter married to another great house not just some Northern lord that the king on the Iron throne likely never even heard of etc etc.

But I do think the results do play into the GNC and the likelihood that Stannis might win but not like the results because I think on balance the North wants a Stark in Winterfell but they also really don't want any more southern entanglements or keep them as small as possible.

[Night's Watchmen]

First, how do we know Varys is a Blakfyre supporter? I saw some people suggesting Aegon is a Blackfyre, but where is the evidence? I've never seen them, I might have missed it though. And Varys' imformation about the Harrenhall is kinda blurry to me. I don't know what GNC means but I'm pretty much sure after the series, North won't want any more southron entanglements.

[Fire Eater]

First, how do we know Varys is a Blakfyre supporter? I saw some people suggesting Aegon is a Blackfyre, but where is the evidence? I've never seen them, I might have missed it though. And Varys' imformation about the Harrenhall is kinda blurry to me. I don't know what GNC means but I'm pretty much sure after the series, North won't want any more southron entanglements.

Evidence

[Night's Watchmen]

Thanks Fire Eater, Varys driving Aerys into paranoia is a very good argument. But when Varys arrived Aerys was already paranoid, gotta keep that in mind. Nevertheless I also think Aegon is fake and Illyrio's son instead of being a real Targaryen too.

[A Crow Come Over]

Evidence

I wouldnt call that evidence, more conjecture, not evidence. (i support the theory)

[A Crow Come Over]

According to Lady Ryswell, Rickard Stark's maester Walys(Flowers) whispered such things in Lord Stark's ear. According to wiki Maester Walys promoted them? Who(or which) to believe? And even more importantly, why did he have southron ambitions in the first place? Arranging a marriage between his first son and a Tully girl, sending his second son to be fostered by Jon Arryn(a childless high lord, I should add), and arranging a marriage between Lyanna and Robert? This should form a very big alliance(and it did). But why? Did he see a war coming? Or maesters planned(or saw) a war coming so they intervened? I'm stuck guys and expecting help.

I still think this all relates back to Ned's line to Robert "You had the better claim".

There HAS to be some sort of Targaryen blood in the Stark line somewhere along the way (Ned's mom or g-ma?) and that Lord Rickard planned to take advantage of it but Brandon got him roasted first.

[Night's Watchmen]

There's no mentioned Targaryen-Stark marriage in wiki. Some Targaryens did marry for love, but not to Starks as far as I know. And Eddard didn't want the Iron Throne, he could've named himself king when he saw Jamie sitting on the throne, but he didn't. And I don't think Brandon got such ambitions. He doesn't sound like a planning man, he was a man of action.

[anon76returns]

The Targaryen geneology is pretty well documented- there aren't really any spare females in the line of succession that could have married a Stark (and pulling one out of thin air in the 6th or 7th book would be a pretty poor literary trick for GRRM to pull, IMO).

[Free Northman]

The better claim relates to the fact that no had had any claim other than armed strength, so to give the new King any shred of legitimacy whatsoever, they tenuously tried to suggest that Robert's distant Targ blood somehow gave him some link to the Throne.

This despite the fact that they had actually gone to all this effort to get rid of the very Targ dynasty that they now tried to use as Robert's link to legitimacy.

The fact is, none of them had any right to the Throne. The Throne had effectively been destroyed, and any lord had as much right as any other to be a new King, if they actually chose to stick to the whole Iron Throne idea.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Thanks Fire Eater, Varys driving Aerys into paranoia is a very good argument. But when Varys arrived Aerys was already paranoid, gotta keep that in mind.

I agree with this: Aerys called Varys BECAUSE he was already paranoid and distrustful of everybody, so, when he is informed Varys already has his own network of spies, he wants him to work for him. So, this completely discredit the fact that Varys intentionally turned Aerys in the man we've heard about: he was already becoming that himself.

[Hardstone]

The Targaryen geneology is pretty well documented- there aren't really any spare females in the line of succession that could have married a Stark (and pulling one out of thin air in the 6th or 7th book would be a pretty poor literary trick for GRRM to pull, IMO).

Considering the family tree is hazy around Jaehaerys I reign (we don't know any of his children(s) name(s)), it is possible there could have been a link then. It has been suggested on the forums that when Jaehaerys and Alysanne visited the North with 5/6? dragons and the entire court that it could have been for a wedding.

From Bran's weirwood visions, isn't the pregnant lady who wants her son to avenge her theorised to be Rickard's mother (between Lyanna & Benjen vision and the Dunk vision)? Rickard was an only child so maybe Edwyle was killed before Rickard was born. I can't recall the link with the south if anyone else can recall...?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Ι have this crazy theory that "southron ambitions" is/are the woman's (from Bran's treedream) revenge

[jons nissa]

According to Lady Ryswell, Rickard Stark's maester Walys(Flowers) whispered such things in Lord Stark's ear. According to wiki Maester Walys promoted them? Who(or which) to believe? And even more importantly, why did he have southron ambitions in the first place? Arranging a marriage between his first son and a Tully girl, sending his second son to be fostered by Jon Arryn(a childless high lord, I should add), and arranging a marriage between Lyanna and Robert? This should form a very big alliance(and it did). But why? Did he see a war coming? Or maesters planned(or saw) a war coming so they intervened? I'm stuck guys and expecting help.

i've always wondered whether or not there isn't a master plan brewing between the maesters to further some cause no one is aware of similar to the bene gesserit doing genetic planning in dune. after all, they are placed in every home and keep of importance throughout westeros. i still think there's something going on in the citadel but we just don't have enough info to speculate much.

but that aside, i think ned's father had southern ambitions because he realized that the north would not grow enough being isolated as they were. they needed alliances for things other than war like trade, immigration and knowledge. everything important was happening in the south. i think it was very forward looking on his part and would have helped house stark immensely had it happened as planned.

[The Fallen]

A lot of wild theories. Why couldn't it have been as simple as Rickard Stark becoming friendly with the lords of Storm's End, the Eyrie and Riverrun during the War of the Ninepenny Kings and then they decide to strengthen those bonds through their children?

[aquintus]

According to Lady Ryswell,

And that's the most important phrase in your post. According to a woman who is extremely bitter and hateful that Rickard Stark arranged a marriage between Brandon Stark, a man she was infatuated with, and a Southron Woman, Rickard had "Southron ambitions." According to Lady Ryswell and nobody else.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

And that's the most important phrase in your post. According to a woman who is extremely bitter and hateful that Rickard Stark arranged a marriage between Brandon Stark, a man she was infatuated with, and a Southron Woman, Rickard had "Southron ambitions." According to Lady Ryswell and nobody else.

Ηe did arranged his daughter and his son's mariages to Southorns.

[aquintus]

Ηe did arranged his daughter and his son's mariages to Southorns.

He did, but that's hardly worthy of conspiracy theories.

[therealbando]

Evidence

This makes a lot of sense. I am a supporter of the Aegon is a Blackfyre theory. My opinion is that it would be much better if he was a Blackfyre, than him being the son of Rhaegar. Fist of all it would take away Jon`s thunder if it turned out that he really is Rheagar son: Howland Reed appearing "Jon Snow is Rheagar`s son"... Big deal, so is Aegon. But this way Jon remains the only son and also Rhaegar`s heir. Secondly, theoretically, we would have a new Targaryen vs Blackfyre in Jon/Dany vs Aegon. And last but not least it would be better because I (and as I`ve seen on the forum, many others) don`t really like all these dead people turning up alive.