A typical northman

[Ser Edmure Tully]

I just wanted to start a thread that would answer a question thats been nagging at me.

Around these forums, I see the phrases "typical northman", "normal northerners", etc etc get bandied about.

I just wanted people's opinions on what the typical northman is. Traits, similarities between houses or regions of the north, or even in relation to typical southerners (whatever they may be).

Or whether or not there is actually a typical northerner that embodies a certain set of characteristics above all others.

The other definition for a term i see bandied about is "Starkness". Usually used in the context of "Sansa lacks Starkness". What are the defining qualities of a Stark, and why do heaps of people think Sansa lacks them?

[The BlackBear]

On typical Northmen I can only really say tough, and patriotic are the two defining characteristics.

On Starkness a lot of people base that on Ned, Robb and Jon: Quiet, thoughtful, honourable, not cruel, but detached. But that certainly wasn't all of them, Brandon and Lyanna were wild, with Brandon especially being quite vocal and rash.

[Jslay427]

Starkness can be defined as honest and honorable. Think of the actions of Ned, Robb (save for breaking the Frey bethrothal) and Jon and you will have a good basis on how to have Starkness. I think a lot of Northmen try to emulate their Liege Lords, which is a good thing.

[MotherAnduin]

Northmen are just like southernmen except they have a higher tolerance to cold temperatures and they have a massive superiority complex.

[Ser Edmure Tully]

Northmen are just like southernmen except they have a higher tolerance to cold temperatures and they have a massive superiority complex.

Yeah, I sort of agree with this.

Many people tend to lump the northerners into "generally more honorable and tougher than southerners" category.

This is the region that spawned Roose and Ramsay Bolton (dont get me wrong, i love the Rooster as a character), there's Wyman Manderly, who freaking eats people, the Umbers who supposedly still practice first night custom, Jorah Mormont, who was a slaver.

I dont know, I just wanted an answer to the apparently prevalent assumptions that the North is a tougher, more honorable place than the South generally, i guess.

[Ser Edmure Tully]

Starkness can be defined as honest and honorable. Think of the actions of Ned, Robb (save for breaking the Frey bethrothal) and Jon and you will have a good basis on how to have Starkness. I think a lot of Northmen try to emulate their Liege Lords, which is a good thing.

Even if their liege lord is Roose?

[Morienthar]

http://images4.wikia..._Civil_War3.png

Would look something like this.......

Worships different gods and has a deep sense of honor.

[The BlackBear]

Saying they're honourable is difficult and when I said tougher I meant they're less easy to dishearten. Roose and Ramsay are of course exceptions but almost everyone despises them.

[Sansa_Stark]

I would say the South actually has a superiority complex. Hell, Maesters in general are trying to wipe on the first men blood in the north aren't they?

[Lord Illidan Stormrage]

I would say they are the same as other people - no more no less. There are honorable like Ned and Rob, there are vengeful like Lady Dustin, there are ones who bow only to power like Greatjon, there are cruel like Roose and Ramsey, and brutal like the Umbers (Roose implies that they still practice the right of first night). Overall the only thing that is different is the place they live.

[Ser Edmure Tully]

I would say the South actually has a superiority complex. Hell, Maesters in general are trying to wipe on the first men blood in the north aren't they?

say what? can you link me to a theory for this?

[Tagganaro]

The Northmen do have one defining characteristic: Each and every one of them is about 1000x cooler than any Southron fool.

[FittleLinger]

The Northmen do have one defining characteristic: Each and every one of them is about 1000x cooler than any Southron fool.

Har! For example, a 10 year old girl telling Stannis to piss off.

[Mine Is Not The Fury]

Northmen are just like southernmen except they have a higher tolerance to cold temperatures and they have a massive superiority complex.

This. There aint no such thing as a typical northman.

[Free Northman]

There definitely are typical Northman characteristics. Think of them as the men of the Western American Frontier during the latter part of the 1800's compared to the Eastern civilized "tenderfoot", to use the colloquial term of the day.

They are products of their environment, as are the southerners. They are not physically larger, stronger or faster than the average southerner. But they are hardier due to the harsher nature of their environment.

The North is more primitive and a much tougher environment to live in.

So to answer the question:

The typical Northern characteristics as I see it when reading the books, are:

Elevated levels of stoicism, due to the unforgiving nature of their existence,

An unintentional but very real increased acceptance of low level cruelty in their day to day lives.

Cruelty is perhaps the wrong word, but lets just call them less sensitive to suffering and pain. It's almost a case of being more accepting of the harshness of nature, and the natural cycle of life. This may be a cultural relic of their ancient association with the Children of the Forest, who also display this almost fatalistic acceptance of the cycle of life and death. We see this from the Mountain Clans, in particular.

They're also less cultured than southerners, definitely.

In short, take some of the 19th century clans from the Appalachian region of the US, and you may have a fair approximation of how northmen compare to the more civilized folks from the South.

[Mikkel]

Northmen live in a climate that most people from the South wouldn't like, and consequently, see themselves as tougher and hardier than the Southerners. It's all a matter of perspective, of course, as the Wildlings see the "Northmen" as soft kneelers in turn.

As for Starkness, Ned seems to embody the traits that people associate with "Starkness" the most: Honorable, tough when he needs to be and, well, stark (as in the adjective, not the name). it's uncertain how many of the previous Stark lords have been like Ned, but it appears that the Starks are more popular with their Commoners and Bannermen than many of the other great houses*, and this has got to come from somewhere - and it's very unlikely that it's all due to Ned.

*of course they aren't universally loved (Boltons, Lady Dustin - unless she's faking it), and a fair amount of commoners probably don't give a damn who their liege lords are as long as they're left in peace

[Sopranos With Swords]

The south just seems far more forgiving, whereas the nature of the north may breed tougher folk.

As far as feeling superior, typically the north may feel they are tougher and more equipped for 'real life', whereas the south by nature of its socio-economical factors (it is home to the capital and the richest areas of the continent) may be comparatively more civilised/educated/cultured, within reason whatever their class, and therefore the 'typical' southerner may think themselves superior for that reason.

Just as some southerners look down somewhat on superstitious, grim and less civilised northerners, the northerners themselves look down on the uncivilised wildlings, and visa versa the wildlings think of 'southerners' as weak kneelers and so on.

I know certainly in the UK there are still friendly stereotypes of a grim dull north and a poncey south.

[Fat Mac]

I'd consider then hardier most definitely. Living in places like that will do that to you.

However, not all of them are honorable, especially if Roose Bolton is to be believed. Hard places breed hard men. I wouldn't be surprised if the average northman would be considered nasty or crude to a southerner.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

The Typical Northman is a patriot, follow strict the costumes of the First Men (follows the Old Gods, Execute the people they sentenced to die etc)

They are very pride of their origins and they consider themselves independent, I know they aren't, but they put themselves separated from the southners

They are braver than the other people in my opinion

[Free Northman]

I'd consider then hardier most definitely. Living in places like that will do that to you.

However, not all of them are honorable, especially if Roose Bolton is to be believed. Hard places breed hard men. I wouldn't be surprised if the average northman would be considered nasty or crude to a southerner.

As said above, I'd compare them to the typical frontiersman from the Old Wild West. On the one hand this environment bred men whose word was iron, and a handshake was as good as a contract. To be called a liar was sufficient cause to engage in a shootout to the death.

On the other hand, the harsh, wild, eye-for-an-eye environment bred some of the most vile murderers, rapists, robbers and general outlaws in history.

I think this duality is reflected pretty well in the North, where you have tough, straightalking men like the Umbers and the Mountain Clans, while you have vile creatures like the Boltons roaming around at the same time.