Lord Illidan Stormrage Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 As said above, I'd compare them to the typical frontiersman from the Old Wild West. On the one hand this environment bred men whose word was iron, and a handshake was as good as a contract. To be called a liar was sufficient cause to engage in a shootout to the death.On the other hand, the harsh, wild, eye-for-an-eye environment bred some of the most vile murderers, rapists, robbers and general outlaws in history.I think this duality is reflected pretty well in the North, where you have tough, straightalking men like the Umbers and the Mountain Clans, while you have vile creatures like the Boltons roaming around at the same time.I wouldn't call the Umbers good especially if Roose is to be believed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Independent George Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Even the Starks aren't universally good and honorable. There have been plenty of lousy Starks throughout history, and while Brandon himself actually seems like kind of a douche. I like Ned and the current generation of Starks; generalizing the entire North from that is kind of silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Northmen are just like southernmen except they have a higher tolerance to cold temperatures and they have a massive superiority complex.I agree with this.Even the Starks aren't universally good and honorable. There have been plenty of lousy Starks throughout history, and while Brandon himself actually seems like kind of a douche. I like Ned and the current generation of Starks; generalizing the entire North from that is kind of silly.I agree with this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I agree with this.I agree with this too.Superiority complex? I would call that the typical "They are savages / They are sissies" relations that people from different regions often have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hukthagz Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Yeah, superiority complex is wrong phrasing, it's more like a simple bias. It's typically seen in nearly everybody and a reflexive thought to any outsider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagganaro Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Superiority complex? I would call that the typical "They are savages / They are sissies" relations that people from different regions often have.agreed. If you're going to call out the Northmen for having a "superiority complex", than the entire world of Westeros has one. The Southron fools that we meet in ADWD at the Wall certainly have a "superiority complex", in fact pretty much every group of people we meet think they are better than any other group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 People from the south consider the Northners savages and ignorantsWe can see this kind of prejudice, I think Cersei said so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelmHammerhand Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 As said above, I'd compare them to the typical frontiersman from the Old Wild West. On the one hand this environment bred men whose word was iron, and a handshake was as good as a contract. To be called a liar was sufficient cause to engage in a shootout to the death.On the other hand, the harsh, wild, eye-for-an-eye environment bred some of the most vile murderers, rapists, robbers and general outlaws in history.Superiority complex? I would call that the typical "They are savages / They are sissies" relations that people from different regions often have. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northbound Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 They look way more awesome holding a battle axe, than people from the south. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 say what? can you link me to a theory for this?Can't link anything but I think it's why Rickard Starks maester pushed so hard for a southron alliance....to wash away the starks FM blood with that of Andals.Fairly popular theory IIRC.Oh, and while southerners may look down on northerners and/or vice versa. Those in Essos, especially those in the free cities and possible Qarth look down on Westeros as a whole.Funny how things work out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Aerys the Just Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Can't link anything but I think it's why Rickard Starks maester pushed so hard for a southron alliance....to wash away the starks FM blood with that of Andals.Fairly popular theory IIRC.Oh, and while southerners may look down on northerners and/or vice versa. Those in Essos, especially those in the free cities and possible Qarth look down on Westeros as a whole.Funny how things work outWhat?Doesn't seem to have worked very well then, considering that Catelyn's kids are all turning out to be wargs. Jon too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 What?Doesn't seem to have worked very well then, considering that Catelyn's kids are all turning out to be wargs. Jon too.That's just one generation though.What if they convinced Robb to marry Marg or Mrycella?Now the first men blood in the next Stark generation is fairly weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 There's no significant difference. Life is tough everywhere in Westeros. Just because it's colder up North doesn't change much the nature of those living there. The claims that Northerners are more honorable are downright hilarious after their nobles spent ADWD backstabbing each other over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Independent George Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 There is one important Northern characteristic, if the show is anything to go by:Northmen have really great beards. I'm rather jealous as, being a 'typical Chinaman', I can't grow one myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 being a 'typical Chinaman'Can you grow a Fu Manchu? Because that would totally make up for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSnow Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 They love gravy, wear Reebok tracksuits and frequently appear on the Jeremy Kyle show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeternum Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Necromancing this thread, a lot of interesting anthropology stuff. As said above, I'd compare them to the typical frontiersman from the Old Wild West. On the one hand this environment bred men whose word was iron, and a handshake was as good as a contract. To be called a liar was sufficient cause to engage in a shootout to the death. Yeah, the North is a typical "frontier society" in many ways. It's not just the freezing, hellish, Malthusian environment with decade-long winters that has shaped their culture. They're also constantly attacked by wildlings from beyond the Wall, who go on raids from time to time, forcing the settled Northmen to be on a permanent warpath - it's a similar relationship to the American frontiersmen and the Native American tribes. Cormac McCarthy's Blood Meridian describes this violent environment pretty well. Pretty typical "Northern traits" would be: - Pragmatism before honor; doing what is necessary rather than what is "right"- A harsh survivalist mentality, which is basically the above- A contempt for weak and useless people (since those are a drain on the group during Northern winters)- Clan loyalty and regional patriotism- A higher tolerance for violence, as Free Northman said The Old Gods are interesting as well. No priests exist in the North, no religious system at all. The whole religion was inherited from an alien species, the Children of the Forest. It's pretty likely that the Old Gods themselves are the maintainers of the religion, and those Old Gods have an alien morality that is very strange and different from what we'd call human morality. Rape, murder and cannibalism seem to be fine with the Old Gods, while breaking the guest-right is a mortal sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeternum Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I'll quote an older post of my own, touches on the same topic: Northern values aren't "honorable" in our modern sense, lol.A good example of real Northern honor is when the Karstarks are calling Bran a coward for not killing himself. The North is a place where the freezing winters last for decades, and you're either trying to survive winter or preparing for the next one. Only the fittest survive. "Winter is coming" isn't just a cool slogan, it's their reality. Old men are expected to "go out hunting" in winter and voluntarily die, so their children can eat. Cripples are expected to kill themselves, so they won't be a huge burden on their family's resources. Their idea of honor is doing whatever is necessary, not what is morally right.I like GURM's worldbuilding here - it makes sense that the North's values are all based on their brutal winters, such as their massive respect for the guest right and their contempt for useless eaters.TL;DR - the North is harsh and practical. "Honor" is a southern moralfag idea that they don't have time for. Whether it's eating human corpses or throwing old people into the cold, they'll do what it takes to survive. A hard land breeds a hard people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I just want to say that I have recently discovered Abercombie (I just finished book 2 of the Trilogy), and I am now woefully disappointed with Martin's portrayal of his Northmen. They are positively tame and puny compared to Black Dow, Harding Grim, Tul Duru Thunderhead and the like. Those are the Northmen I had in mind, and frankly, that was before I even read Abercombie. Man, Martin really could have done it so much better. I'm utterly disappointed now, I must admit. Big Bucket, the Norry and the like are laughable fools compared to what they could have been when compared to that vicious bunch. What a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeternum Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I just want to say that I have recently discovered Abercombie (I just finished book 2 of the Trilogy), and I am now woefully disappointed with Martin's portrayal of his Northmen. They are positively tame and puny compared to Black Dow, Harding Grim, Tul Duru Thunderhead and the like. Ha, I haven't read Joe Abercrombie yet. Is it any good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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