[Book Spoilers] Theon and "Boy"

[Daenerys Must Die]

Ramsay & Theon are not at the Dreadfort but are at Deepwood Motte right?

My assumption was they were at Dreadfort.. don't the Ironmen still hold Deepwood Motte until Stannis takes it? It's nowhere near Dreadfort obviously but about the same distance from Winterfell as the former - Theon has no clue where he is though so it's clearly just a ploy on Ramsay's part.

[Bayard]

I wonder if they'll tell his name in his next appearance, or if they'll drag it out until we're on the cusp of the Red Wedding. There was a clip of Asha in a few of the trailers, so we'll probably see something from the ironborn soon that makes it clear that they have no part in Theon's predicament - something tells me they won't reveal him until after that, but that's just guessin'.

What I'm expecting: only one more scene of torture and Boy laughing at Theon in the next 3 episodes. Then, in episode 8 we have the first flayed finger... and in episode 9, Theon begs Boy to cut it off, and he reveals to be Ramsay Bolton, the same episode as the RW.

[Bastard of Balmora]

I can't wait for more Ramsay voice! Hes already so much more entertaining than the sloppy greasy nasty book Ramsay.

My point was that his voice in that scene sounded more similar to how book Ramsay might sound.

[Ordos]

I have an observation: why did they not give Iwan Rheon a fat suit? Book Ramsay is fleshy and big boned as well as having long hair.

And yeah I also want to hear his voice more. When will he say things like "Do it now before I nail your tongue to the wall!"?

[PhoenixFlame]

GAH I loved Ramsay's hyena grin at the end, and his eyeroll when he was fiddling with the gate.

I have an observation: why did they not give Iwan Rheon a fat suit? Book Ramsay is fleshy and big boned as well as having long hair.

And yeah I also want to hear his voice more. When will he say things like "Do it now before I nail your tongue to the wall!"?

I don't think his appearance matters, as long as he looks creepy. Fat suits can inhibit acting as well. I'm sure he'll get to his little Ramsayisms soon enough.

[Donaldys I Trumpagar]

My wife, a non-reader, is now thoroughly confused. I must say, she has a point -- nobody can definitively say where Theon is and with whom he is interacting.

To begin the season, Theon has been captured, presumably by Northmen. He is being tortured in the dungeon of an unnamed keep.

A "boy" servant-type is being ordered around by one of the guards. "Boy" later helps Theon escape on the pretense that his sister has arranged the escape.

The guards ride after Theon, knock him off his horse and are about to rape & possibly kill him.

Boy, who has apparently followed everyone (guards & Theon) savesTheon by killing all five guards.

Boy takes Theon, ostensibly to Deepwood Motte, but has seemingly ridden back to the same keep.

Some questions:

1. Who is initially torturing Theon? (He surely would have recognized their standard.)

2. Who is in charge, either of the keep itself or just the guards?

3. How does Boy know that Theon has a sister?

4. Theon would understand where Deepwood Motte is, but if Boy is really bringing him back to the initial keep, would he not understand that he has simply been brought back there?

5. If Boy is Ramsay, will he not have to explain to someone where the bodies are, and upon their finding, would he not have to explain the arrows in them?

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

edit: also, Theon says to Ramsay that those men said his father knew of his being tortured. Was this during any of the scenes, or just something we're supposed to infer Theon heard off-screen?

It's something that we're suppose to believe happened off screen.

I guess the torture has Theon not thinking clearly. He was surrounded by Northerners, knocked unconscious by his own men. Is he suppose to believe that Master Luwin showed them the "secret passageways" out of the castle and they escaped to a castle that the Ironborne held?

My wife, a non-reader, is now thoroughly confused. I must say, she has a point -- nobody can definitively say where Theon is and with whom he is interacting.

I'm pretty sure that is how it is suppose to be at this point. Theon can't make sense of it either, if this were a chapter in Storm of Swords, we'd have no clue, because Theon has no clue and we're following along with his thoughts.

I'm not saying whether it's a good idea to have it be this confusing but I can see the angle they're going for.

Some questions:

1. Who is initially torturing Theon? (He surely would have recognized their standard.)

2. Who is in charge, either of the keep itself or just the guards?

3. How does Boy know that Theon has a sister?

4. Theon would understand where Deepwood Motte is, but if Boy is really bringing him back to the initial keep, would he not understand that he has simply been brought back there?

5. If Boy is Ramsay, will he not have to explain to someone where the bodies are, and upon their finding, would he not have to explain the arrows in them?

1. They aren't telling him who they are and they're not wearing any colors or standards. This is to mess with him.

2. What?

3. Master Luwin quizzes Bran on house words, most educated people in Westeros know who the major Lords are and their children. Arya claims she's from Maidenpool, then Barrowton. I mean Robb knew how old Martin Lannister was and that he was Tywin Lannister's father's brother's great grandson. Knowing Theon Greyjoy has a sister Yara is not that hard to figure out.

Also Yara has taken over Deepwood Moat, this information would spread through the North pretty quickly.

4. Theon does not know where he is to begin with. What is strange is Deepwood Moat is about as far west in the North gets I thought, so I don't see how Theon can get there going east....

5. Theon is a pretty good bowman, this would be know in the North, if not before the War of Five Kings then afterwards since he did ride South and fight along side Robb for a few battles before being an envoy to his Balon.

[Oakenfist]

My wife, a non-reader, is now thoroughly confused. I must say, she has a point -- nobody can definitively say where Theon is and with whom he is interacting.

To begin the season, Theon has been captured, presumably by Northmen. He is being tortured in the dungeon of an unnamed keep.

A "boy" servant-type is being ordered around by one of the guards. "Boy" later helps Theon escape on the pretense that his sister has arranged the escape.

The guards ride after Theon, knock him off his horse and are about to rape & possibly kill him.

Boy, who has apparently followed everyone (guards & Theon) savesTheon by killing all five guards.

Boy takes Theon, ostensibly to Deepwood Motte, but has seemingly ridden back to the same keep.

Some questions:

1. Who is initially torturing Theon? (He surely would have recognized their standard.)

2. Who is in charge, either of the keep itself or just the guards?

3. How does Boy know that Theon has a sister?

4. Theon would understand where Deepwood Motte is, but if Boy is really bringing him back to the initial keep, would he not understand that he has simply been brought back there?

5. If Boy is Ramsay, will he not have to explain to someone where the bodies are, and upon their finding, would he not have to explain the arrows in them?

I talked to a show only watcher and he pretty much thinks that Balon is holding Theon. There are details like the fact that the torturers were wearing Ironborn armour, but there's contradicting details like the giant X (Bolton symbol) where Theon is tortured on.

Boy tells Theon they're far from Pyke yet doesn't say they're in the North. I think its supposed to be deliberately confusing for viewers.

[ugashep]

LOL. too little, too late. He's only crying because his plan didn't work out. Easy to regret when your past decissions didn't work out as you planned. He's going to get, what he deserves.

No one deserves what happens to Theon.

[ugashep]

I don't get the hate I have seen for this storyline in some circles, the introduction of the Bastard was veiled in the books as well, though it occurred in Book 2 not 3, and happened a little differently. They are just trying to recreate the enigma of him for non-book readers before he is revealed in all his heinous depravity. And the whining that Theon is not in Book 3 and 4 is ridiculous the show could not do it all as a flashback in season 5, that would be absurd, better to get it in real time. Poor Theon. Agree with everybody else who has commended Alfie Allen, he has been amazing.

[Rhasgul]

I read here that a lot of people have lots of respect for Theon and suddenly see him as the good guy. Loads of readers actually have him as one of their fav characters.

I have to say I always kinda disliked him. Don't get me wrong, I liked his chapters and enjoyed the internal monologue very much. I disliked him as a person though. I understand he went through loads and had a hard time growing up as a hostage for the family that killed his brothers and such.

Still, he WAS treated in a humane way and was given everything he needed to grow up and more.

He showed his complete lack of decency whatsoever from the very start, urging to kill the direwolves, always keen on seeing pain and ultimately killing off the whole garrison that once raised and fed him. When he killed ser Rodrik I lost the last bit of respect I had for him.

I'm not saying he deserves to be tortured the way he was and deserves all the pain, misery and mindfuck, but you won't hear me crying for "poor sexy Theon" as I see loads of people here do.

[Jorah the Explorer]

They're going much too fast with this. The Theon sympathetic turn was the only good part of book five. And how much torture and fake-escapes can they show after this? After the Storm of Swords timeline is done they won't have any great material left for later seasons. I hope they prove me wrong.

I suppose they could be taking a "we'll cross the weak bridge that is Feast and Dance when we come to it" approach.

[Ramsay Gimp]

I don't get the hate I have seen for this storyline in some circles, the introduction of the Bastard was veiled in the books as well, though it occurred in Book 2 not 3, and happened a little differently. They are just trying to recreate the enigma of him for non-book readers before he is revealed in all his heinous depravity. And the whining that Theon is not in Book 3 and 4 is ridiculous the show could not do it all as a flashback in season 5, that would be absurd, better to get it in real time. Poor Theon. Agree with everybody else who has commended Alfie Allen, he has been amazing.

The whole "I'm your friend let's escape together" thing was fine and cool. It's the confusion about where the hell they are that's pissing us off, as well as the suggestion that Theon's own family is doing this. Why can't they just say he's at the Dreadfort? And don't give me that it would "ruin the surprise of the Red Wedding" - that makes no sense

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

To be fair didn't they know that already in the books? Seeing how Ramsey was the one who convinced Theon to kill the Miller's Children instead.

Yeah at first I wasn't sure about them knowing but then i remembered Ramsay in the books comes up with the whole killing the miller boys.

While I did think that theon deserved to be punished severely for what he did, I feel like he got what he deserved and then some. Killing the dude may have been a mercy compared to being ramsay's reek.

[Lady of Shalott]

What confuses me is, has Theon never seen Deepwood Motte and/or the Dreadfort? It seems to me that they have pretty different architecture. Wouldn't he realize that the place he's taken to is not where his sister is supposed to be?

[Joyful Union]

The whole "I'm your friend let's escape together" thing was fine and cool. It's the confusion about where the hell they are that's pissing us off, as well as the suggestion that Theon's own family is doing this. Why can't they just say he's at the Dreadfort? And don't give me that it would "ruin the surprise of the Red Wedding" - that makes no sense

It's supposed to be a mystery. It would also reveal that Roose Bolton is not trustworthy far to early in the season, if his bastard raised Winterfell. It wouldn't ruin the surprise of the red Wedding, but it could potentially ruin the surprise of Bolton's treachery which I assume they want to keep under wraps. at this point, he seems like loyal guy.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

The whole "I'm your friend let's escape together" thing was fine and cool. It's the confusion about where the hell they are that's pissing us off, as well as the suggestion that Theon's own family is doing this. Why can't they just say he's at the Dreadfort? And don't give me that it would "ruin the surprise of the Red Wedding" - that makes no sense

They don't want Theon to know where he is, there's no way to point out where they are to the audience without Theon finding out as well.

[Ramsay Gimp]

They don't want Theon to know where he is, there's no way to point out where they are to the audience without Theon finding out as well.

Why? In the books he definitely knew where he was. Not saying that it's bad because it's different than the books, I just think it's badly handled on its own.

[Ramsay Gimp]

What confuses me is, has Theon never seen Deepwood Motte and/or the Dreadfort? It seems to me that they have pretty different architecture. Wouldn't he realize that the place he's taken to is not where his sister is supposed to be?

Telling him to go "east" in the first place made no sense either

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

What confuses me is, has Theon never seen Deepwood Motte and/or the Dreadfort? It seems to me that they have pretty different architecture. Wouldn't he realize that the place he's taken to is not where his sister is supposed to be?

I don't see why he would travel to any of those places.