[Book Spoilers] Question About Scene At Crasters

[Florina Laufeyson]

Just rewatched it. Edd wasn't killed, he killed the man who grabbed him. I had to pause to make that clear. Dolorous Edd is very much alive thank R'hllor.

Oh you are a saint, my friend. I got all worried when someone was wondering about Edd. I didnt notice really. But i got worried all the same.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Just rewatched it. Edd wasn't killed, he killed the man who grabbed him. I had to pause to make that clear. Dolorous Edd is very much alive thank R'hllor.

Oh thank goodness. I might have stopped watching if they killed him off.

Oh, and after watching this episode, I just knew that you would have deranged Ramsay as your avatar :P

[Frumpus]

So since the Old Bear didn't get to be held by Sam the slayer for a long time while he died and didn't impart on him his dying wish of having his son Jorah join the Nights Watch.

Does that mean(confirm) Sam will never get to tell Jorah and he'll never join the NW?

How often do things in the books ever happen as planned? Obviously Jeor's dying wishes were never going to come true.

Does anyone the name of the show-exclusive character that killed Craster. I understand this was asked before but it's likely that an actor that plays in at least 2 episodes and with a rather significant role should have a name for who he was cast to portray.

Not a show exclusive character. He was Karl. The character in the books that killed Craster was Dirk, but Karl was another co-conspirator.

I'm guessing Karl and Rast along with a few other extras will later be killed by Coldhands, perhaps in ep10.

[Zman1863]

I thought that the scene seemed to rushed. I guess it's meant to create suspense about whether Grenn and Edd survived. I suppose we won't see anyone from the watch again except Sam and Jon for the rest of the season or whenever Jon gets back to the Wall. I'm not going to read much into J. Mormont's final wish. That's a question in the books that geographically looks as unlikely to ever being fulfilled as anything. Even if it does somehow come to fruition, it isn't completely necessary to introduce it as it was in the books.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

How often do things in the books ever happen as planned? Obviously Jeor's dying wishes were never going to come true.

Not a show exclusive character. He was Karl. The character in the books that killed Craster was Dirk, but Karl was another co-conspirator.

I'm guessing Karl and Rast along with a few other extras will later be killed by Coldhands, perhaps in ep10.

Weren't a lot of the co conspirators killed during the actual fight at crasters keep? i remember a few of them later attacked sam when he was with gilly right before Coldhands saved the day.

Unless that's what you mean.

[Frumpus]

Weren't a lot of the co conspirators killed during the actual fight at crasters keep? i remember a few of them later attacked sam when he was with gilly right before Coldhands saved the day.

Unless that's what you mean.

Yeah thats what I mean.

[Sandor the True Knight]

I'm not going to read much into J. Mormont's final wish. That's a question in the books that geographically looks as unlikely to ever being fulfilled as anything. Even if it does somehow come to fruition, it isn't completely necessary to introduce it as it was in the books.

That's just such a memorable scene from the books and a much better death for the LC, even if it is unlikely to have any further relevance to the future of the books.

The show is staying nice and gritty though. Last wishes from stabbed, dying men have become a bit cliche in the world of cinema. Maybe that's why they left it out.

[Nezzer]

Oh thank goodness. I might have stopped watching if they killed him off.

Oh, and after watching this episode, I just knew that you would have deranged Ramsay as your avatar :P

Yeah, I'm way too predictable ^_^

[Dove]

Burn Gorman did great, even if his role ends in the next couple of episodes I'm satisfied

The tension was palpable in those few seconds of silence, then "... bastard." awww hell

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

I thought that the scene seemed to rushed. I guess it's meant to create suspense about whether Grenn and Edd survived. I suppose we won't see anyone from the watch again except Sam and Jon for the rest of the season or whenever Jon gets back to the Wall. I'm not going to read much into J. Mormont's final wish. That's a question in the books that geographically looks as unlikely to ever being fulfilled as anything. Even if it does somehow come to fruition, it isn't completely necessary to introduce it as it was in the books.

I agree with most of this, but I'm not too worried about it. The seeds of discord were sowed in the previous episode, and for how short the seasons are that's enough for me. Mormont's dying wish has yet to be relevant in the books, so it might just be one of those things that gets cut just because (a) it might not really matter much down the road and (B) it probably wouldn't fit for Sam to pause for a final chat with Mormont during a scene when he needs to be getting the hell out of there.

Overall, I liked the scene and how it played out. The only knocks on it where how quick, rushed and random it seemed, but if we're being honest about it... doesn't "quick, rushed and random" kind of seem to be in keeping with the Mutiny? Sure there was more rabble-rousing about the LC in the book, but beyond that, it was a very near sighted thing for the NW to do. The way the scene plays out is kind of fitting, no?

All in all, my only real gripe with the NW business so far this season is that I wish that, despite all the other things clamoring for money from the show's budget, I wish we could've seen more of the Others/White Walkers attack on the Fist. I'm sure it was just a budget issue, and they've written around it as well as they can, but this storyline still suffers from it.

As for other Sam stuff...

I'm not sure when and if Sam will kill an Other. Maybe the Other will come for the baby and that's when he'll do it. But, without other NW around to see it, it will just be a story.

I was perfectly fine with how the mutiny scene played out (as noted above), so I'm more worried about Sam getting his Slayer moment. He's still got plenty of time for it and there are any number of ways to play the flight back to Castle Black that could still give us that moment of Sam finally showing his courage. I'll refrain from judgement from the absence of that one until the end of season 4. Or until Sam kicks ass and takes names. Whichever happens first.

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Last wishes from stabbed, dying men have become a bit cliche in the world of cinema. Maybe that's why they left it out.

Not a bad reason to leave it out, IMO.

[Oakenfist]

"We never knew! But we must have known once. The Night’s Watch has forgotten its true purpose, Tarly. You don’t build a wall seven hundred feet high to keep savages in skins from stealing women. The Wall was made to guard the realms of men … and not against other men, which is all the wildlings are when you come right down to it. Too many years, Tarly, too many hundreds and thousands of years. We lost sight of the true enemy. And now he’s here, but we don’t know how to fight him."

Shame we won't get to hear Old Bear say this to Sam but I have a feeling it will be said at some point by another character. Or did he already say this to Jon in the first season? I can't remember.

[Angmar]

It was a very tense scene...Out of all the gruesome fights and deaths we've had in the show, this is the only that really made me flinch at. Happened the same while reading the book... :laugh:

And now we'll wait for the Sam the Slayer scene; if it's done as this one, it'll be pretty darn good.

[TheDarkOne]

I'm not sad they left it out, I think it works better without it.

[zaphodbrx]

I just rewatched that scene with 'You are a bastard. A daughter f*king, wildling bastard'.

Thank you! random Night's watch extra. You said it like it was.

Could have put in a line about being in league with white walkers too.

[Zerrex]

Good scene, very tense.

I liked how Mormont still managed to turn and grab his killer. The whole thing really held up to his namesake. The same goes for Aurochs loyalty charge.

Also, yeah, it happens really quickly but Edd gets his weapon out and into the guy attacking him from behind, was a nice move, his bad luck hasn't caught up to him yet.

[Zombie]

Hmmm I can admit I am a bit of a book purist and I did want to hear the Old Bear's dying wish. However, in the books I remember Jon Snow mentioning the Old Bear left notes on some people of the Watch for the next LC to be careful of. Who is to say he didn't leave a written will and testament to be carried out by the next LC... you know something like:

"While I am grateful for Ned Stark of Winterfell for sparing the life of my son Jorah, let my last wish be known that I ask the King (of the North) to lift his exile and let him return home. Let him take the black so he can stand up and protect his family and countrymen from the shadows I now know lurk beyond the wall. I have no doubts that the Nights Watch will need every man to face the dangers men have long forgotten in these coming days."

Something like that gets the wish across and it would be nice to see a reaction from Jon Snow as he reads this to himself aloud.

As for the line. "We never knew! But we must have known once. The Night’s Watch has forgotten its true purpose, Tarly. You don’t build a wall seven hundred feet high to keep savages in skins from stealing women. The Wall was made to guard the realms of men … and not against other men, which is all the wildlings are when you come right down to it. Too many years, Tarly, too many hundreds and thousands of years. We lost sight of the true enemy. And now he’s here, but we don’t know how to fight him."

While I would have preferred hearing it from the Old Bear, it is a line that Jon Snow can take over at any point really, probably after Sam the Slayer relays how he actually killed an Other. Where and when remains the question I look forward to seeing in the series. The how is obviously obsidian/dragonglass. :D

[Mediumjon Umber]

Sitting on the floor, crying like a child and holding Mormont's head in his lap is the last thing TV Sam needs right now. They've already established that he's an unbelievable wimp and staying true to the book in this regard would only make him look even worse! Immediately going after Ginny after all hell broke loose showed us he still has balls. Maybe we'll get to see Sam the Slayer after all.

[Delmas]

Possibly, but more importantly was that Edd who was stabbed immediately after the fight broke out?

Looked like Grenn grabbing Edd, in a "lets get the hell outta here" fashion to myself

[Bannerman918]

Just some plot device to get the stuff going, showing that it wasn't just Rast who was against the LC

Isn't that Dirk?