A look at the "Boy" reveal (book spoilers)

[Jamie Lannister]

So does this episode put to bed any notions that "Boy" ISN'T Ramsay? Let's take a little look.

Psychotic smirk: Check.

Total betrayal of Theon: Check.

Blatant sadistic tendencies: Check.

Learning that the Stark boys are still alive (which Ramsay already knew in the books; this was a different way for him to get the same knowledge): Check.

Ordering around the other torturers ("Put him back where he belongs!"): Check.

Surely this proves it beyond a shadow of reasonable doubt. Tonight we met the real Ramsay Sn-- uh, Bolton. And he is terrifyingly glorious.

[Jamie Lannister]

One thing I dislike is how defensive he got when framing Theon though. "I've brought him back. He- he killed the others!" doesn't sound very Ramsay-esque. Book!Ramsay (when he drops the mask, which TV-wise was right now) is commanding and sure of himself to the point of shameless arrogance.

[RhymesWithChic]

His eyes when he jumps out from behind the rack. :eek: I had Ramsay nightmares for months after reading ADWD, and I'm fully prepared for those to resume. Totally worth it, though.

[TheDarkOne]

There were people who thought it wasn't Ramsey?

[BananaSpice]

One thing I dislike is how defensive he got when framing Theon though. "I've brought him back. He- he killed the others!" doesn't sound very Ramsay-esque. Book!Ramsay (when he drops the mask, which TV-wise was right now) is commanding and sure of himself to the point of shameless arrogance.

I also thought it was a bit strange, but I think it was just an idea he maybe just came up with (to tell them that) ... I mean, I guess he COULD be a little defensive about killing his (or rather his father's) own men ... at least at this point. He hasn't been legitimized yet.

[Talbot]

One thing I dislike is how defensive he got when framing Theon though. "I've brought him back. He- he killed the others!" doesn't sound very Ramsay-esque. Book!Ramsay (when he drops the mask, which TV-wise was right now) is commanding and sure of himself to the point of shameless arrogance.

Well it could still be part of an elaborate game that Ramsay is playing with Theon. We know his characterization and how twisted he is after reading ADWD, but he hasn't revealed himself as Ramsay yet in the show. Give it time.

[TheEvilKing]

So does this episode put to bed any notions that "Boy" ISN'T Ramsay? Let's take a little look.

I didn't think that was even in doubt...

[Lady Sansa Stark]

Did anyone thought it wasn't Ramsay, then? Besides, the guy from last episode also called him ''bastard'', I think that was a nice reference. I look forward to his scenes, Ramsay is well played by the actor.

[Sun]

He is Ramsay, I have no doubt, but I do have a niggling question about the scene. When he first brought Theon into the room, he said "I brought him back, he killed the others" almost in the tone of an underling. He didn't sound like a commander/leader in that room. He sounded like he needed to excuse his actions and the absence of the other men, it's almost as if no one expected to be the one that brings Theon back. Even when he told the men to put him back where he belongs, the tone he used wasn't authoritative. Frankly I'm a bit puzzled by it.

Is Ramsay not commanding the Bolton troops? He should be, Roose said he was. Do the men not look on him as their leader because he's a bastard? Is this Theon exercise not only to break Theon, but to bend his father's men to his command by eliminating the leaders among them?

I'm not sure, I'm just puzzled by his demeanor in that room.

ETA:

I see Jamie Lannister already brought up the point:

One thing I dislike is how defensive he got when framing Theon though. "I've brought him back. He- he killed the others!" doesn't sound very Ramsay-esque. Book!Ramsay (when he drops the mask, which TV-wise was right now) is commanding and sure of himself to the point of shameless arrogance.

I can only think that his tone indicated he's not in true command of his men because of his status as a bastard. They don't respect him.

[Jamie Lannister]

He is Ramsay, I have no doubt, but I do find niggling question about the scene. When he first brought Theon into the room, he said "I brought him back, he killed the others" almost in the tone of an underling. He didn't sound like a commander/leader in that room.

Yeah, this bothered me. We know that Ramsay was ordered to retake Winterfell on behalf of his father, which definitely implies some degree of leadership and authority; why is he acting subservient to anyone but Roose? Ramsay threw his weight around all the time in the books. Friends and foes alike are scared of his temper.

Well, maybe it is because he's still a Snow, but still.

[Roose Seal]

OR he could be putting on an act for the troops as well.

I've had this thought:

Maybe in the next episode we see "Ramsay" (who is actually the real Ramsay's servant Reek) commanding troops around. The troops believe him to be the real Ramsay Snow when he is actually just some servant the real Ramsay has cleaned up and put in nice clothing.

In a later episode, "Boy" (who is actually Ramsay) kills "Ramsay" and reveals himself to be the true Bastard of Bolton and makes Theon into his new Reek.

Complete mindfuck for everyone and it sort of follows the book's Reek/Ramsay reveal.

As of now, the "Boy" character is a little confusing to book readers because we keep trying to compare this story with the book's when they've already made significant changes. To show-viewers, he is just a servant boy who tricked Theon, they have no idea he's supposed to be the bastard of bolton yet. Let's wait and see how it plays out.

[vectner]

I felt that Ramsay was acting as if this wasn't his idea, so Theon doesn't catch on. My non book reader wife is all confused. She knows it's a mind game, but she doesn't know that "boy" is running the show. I half expected the men to "capture" Ramsay as well, so him and Theon could have some more bonding time as prisoners.

[Mediumjon Umber]

One thing I dislike is how defensive he got when framing Theon though. "I've brought him back. He- he killed the others!" doesn't sound very Ramsay-esque. Book!Ramsay (when he drops the mask, which TV-wise was right now) is commanding and sure of himself to the point of shameless arrogance.

Well, I imagine Roose wouldn't be very pleased if he learned that Ramsay killed his men just to amuse himself. I think Ramsay's in charge of the Dreadfort but he still fears his father.

[Delmas]

Well, I imagine Roose wouldn't be very pleased if he learned that Ramsay killed his men just to amuse himself. I think Ramsay's in charge of the Dreadfort but he still fears his father.

Not to mention the men are likely to revolt if they know their leader killed many of their brothers/friends for a few laughs.

Also he may not want Theon to know he is actually the one in charge

[freetickles]

Yeah, I don't think he's acting subservient, just trying to hide the fact he killed his father's men. Also, I think he's avoiding showing authority so he can keep up a bit of his ruse with Theon .... who may even still trust him despite being betrayed since he has no other options.

[Frey Pie a la Mode]

Yes, it's still all a part of the game (that Ramsey is playing with Theon, and the writers are playing with the non-book readers).

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

OR he could be putting on an act for the troops as well.

I've had this thought:

Maybe in the next episode we see "Ramsay" (who is actually the real Ramsay's servant Reek) commanding troops around. The troops believe him to be the real Ramsay Snow when he is actually just some servant the real Ramsay has cleaned up and put in nice clothing.

In a later episode, "Boy" (who is actually Ramsay) kills "Ramsay" and reveals himself to be the true Bastard of Bolton and makes Theon into his new Reek.

Complete mindfuck for everyone and it sort of follows the book's Reek/Ramsay reveal.

As of now, the "Boy" character is a little confusing to book readers because we keep trying to compare this story with the book's when they've already made significant changes. To show-viewers, he is just a servant boy who tricked Theon, they have no idea he's supposed to be the bastard of bolton yet. Let's wait and see how it plays out.

I don't think that will work too well on TV though. People are confused enough as it is and that is the whole point. Get people out of the zone and unsettled for when the true nature of Ramsay is revealed. There is no need to make them more confused or they dis-invest themselves from the story - especially as they are all currently cheering for Dany.

[King Tommen]

He's been posing as a stable boy in front of the rest of the men, they are obviously all in on the ruse. Book readers are so friggin impatient to see Ramsay that they aren't fully understanding what's going on in any of these scenes.

He's playing games with Theon (for his sick pleasure but also to get information) and he's got all of the men there on board with it. I'm sure they wouldn't be as much on board with Ramsay's plan if they knew he was going to be killing them for his own amusement as part of it so he probably threw in that comment to them about Theon being the one to kill the others so as not to implicate himself too much. Meanwhile, the ruse is still going to continue with Ramsay not fully revealing himself to Theon as the ringleader and more importantly where he is and who he is.

All the talk about Yara and the Iron Islands is deliberately there to confuse the issue for both Theon but mainly the audience. When it comes time to show Theon that he's at the Dreadfort and the boy is Roose's bastard who came to liberate Winterfell, the plot will click into place. But as soon as you do this, you alert the audience that Roose is a full-blown villain since he's the one who vouched for this obvious psychopath in the first place with Robb. So you need to delay all of this information until very close to the RW so that the Roose betrayal isn't telegraphed so blatantly.

I understand the confusion from the non-reader end (because it's by design and the lack of information is intended to confuse) but book-readers should have been on to this a lot more quickly, I'm surprised threads pop up like this so often.

[Tywin's bastard]

Yeah, this bothered me. We know that Ramsay was ordered to retake Winterfell on behalf of his father, which definitely implies some degree of leadership and authority; why is he acting subservient to anyone but Roose? Ramsay threw his weight around all the time in the books. Friends and foes alike are scared of his temper.

Well, maybe it is because he's still a Snow, but still.

He does tell them "put him back where he belongs" too though.

[Flayed Starkman]

I just wish they would reveal him as Ramsay already.

Although I think it would be better if they introduced the original Reek, before starting Theon's transformation. I had hoped that the original torturer was Reek, but no such luck.