BrosBeforeSnows Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 If you've ever read any of my posts before (or if you search through the archives), you'll see that I'm obsessed with the link between ASOIAF and Norse Mythology. I'm of the opinion that GRRM is fleshing out the mythology, and giving it life. Mind you, the Norse gods weren't like the Christian God (they were more like the Old Testament God, if anything). They were "cruel gods" (something Cersei says to Sansa). And that's important. Because, GRRM has made the gods cruel, like Jaime, for example, who is Tyr. Or Cersei, who is Frigg. Or Joffrey, who is Baldr (the "Shining One"). So, follow me. The adversaries of the gods are the Jötunn, or giants. They're portrayed as evil in the mythology, but GRRM is portraying them as oppressed instead (i.e. the Children of the Forest and their emissaries, like Bran). Everything is basically building up to Ragnarök, or the Long Night (which is literally what Ragnarök is -- a Long Night, after Fenrir, the Bound Wolf, swallows the sun -- and Surtr, i.e. Jon Snow, sets the world ablaze with his fiery sword). In any case, I believe that one can make predictions about what will happen in ASOIAF based on the mythology. And one of these predictions I'm attempting to make is the identity of Coldhands. Bloodraven, or Lord Brynden (the Greenseer in the tree with Bran) is akin to Loki -- the trickster god, who is half-god, half-giant (i.e. Bloodraven used to work for the gods, but now works against them). He was sent to the Wall after the "Lokasenna" (i.e. Loki's Quarrel), when he renounced his king (Maekar I -- Egg's father) and family (the Targaryens, who thought him cursed and never accepted him). He may have even been blamed for the death of Aerion Targaryen as well -- much like Tyrion is blamed for the death of Joffrey. And much like Loki is blamed for the death of Baldr. Loki is a trickster and a shapeshifter. He is said to take the form of ravens, flies, salmon and even the mist (something that is mentioned in Dunk & Egg, i.e. the small folk fear Bloodraven can warg with the mist). Loki has 3 children - Fenrir, the Bound Wolf (Bran). Jormungandr, the World Serpent (Dany), and Hel, or Sinmara, the Queen of the Dead (Melisandre) -- which, in ASOIAF aren't Bloodraven's real children, but rather, people he holds influence over. But Loki also has a horse called Svadilfari, which means "unlucky traveller". The sigil of Bittersteel's House is a horse with wings, and Bittersteel turned into an "unlucky traveller" after he fled to the Free Cities after the defeat of the Blackfyre Rebellion. It is said that Svadilfari is controlled by the "hrithmurs", who "built the walls of Asgard", and are "giants who inhabit the land of ice". That would mean Coldhands IS being controlled by the Others, if true. As for Bittersteel's relation to Bloodraven -- that's makes the character of Coldhands all the more sinister. Bittersteel and Bloodraven were "bitter" rivals in life. They were both half-Targaryen bastards, but Bittersteel sided with Daemon Blackfyre (the rebel Targ bastard), whereas Bloodraven stayed true to House Targaryen (and essentially won the war for them, yet didn't get any credit for it -- much like Tyrion, yet again). Similarly, Bittersteel lusted after Bloodraven's wife, Shiera Seastar, which obviously led to conflict between the two. He was also the complete opposite of Bloodraven. Bloodraven is an albino, whereas Bittersteel is one of the ONLY swarthy Targaryens (other than Jon Snow, of course). He had black hair, and dark eyes, whereas Bloodraven has white skin and red eyes. So, one can see they're obviously connected in some way -- different sides of the same coin. And it would make sense, in a revenge sort of way, that Bittersteel was Bloodraven's rival in life, and has now become his slave in death. So, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Until GRRM kills off Bloodraven and totally upends my theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armidil0 Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 How did Bittersteel get so far North? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miriel Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Isn't Bittersteel's' head still w/ the Golden Company? Covered in gold or something... or am I confusing that w/ somebody else?ETA: From the wiki:On his deathbed, Bittersteel commanded the men of the Golden Company to boil the flesh from his skull, dip it in gold and carry it before them when they cross the sea to retake Westeros. His successors had followed his example.So he can't be Coldhands if his head is still in Essos... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 That, and Coldhands was once a man of the Nights Watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Interesting, detailed theory! I love Norse mythology!One very minor nitpick: Shiera Seastar was never Bloodraven's wife. He wanted her to marry him but she wouldn't. She was, however, Bloodraven's and Bittersteel's half-sister and is counted as one of the Targaryen Great-Bastards because they were all legitimized by their father King Aegon IV upon his death. That guy really got around! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leviyah Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Interesting idea, I like it!We don't know what happened to Bittersteel, he very well may have ended as a Night's Watch man and, whilst gone ranging, in Bloodravens service. Unlikely, but not impossible. And Coldhands does have black eyes, if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Interesting idea, I like it!We don't know what happened to Bittersteel, he very well may have ended as a Night's Watch man and, whilst gone ranging, in Bloodravens service. Unlikely, but not impossible. And Coldhands does have black eyes, if I remember correctly.Well, if Bittersteel had been in the NW I think Martin would have mentioned it in the story just like he did with Bloodraven (which actually made it pretty easy to figure out he is...)...The Three-Eyed CrowAlso, I don't remember anything being said about Coldhands' eyes except Sam thinking that he "didn't have the blue eyes of a wight" or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leviyah Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 "Coldhands stood beside the door, a raven on his arm, both staring at the fire. Reflections from the flames glittered off four black eyes." (Bran I, ADwD)Well, maybe there is a better quote somewhere else in the text, I just could't find it that fast.And the Wiki also mentions his black eyes. http://awoiaf.wester...x.php/Coldhands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 "Coldhands stood beside the door, a raven on his arm, both staring at the fire. Reflections from the flames glittered off four black eyes." (Bran I, ADwD)Well, there is a better quote somewhere else in the text, I just could't find it that fast.And the Wiki also mentions his black eyes. http://awoiaf.wester...x.php/ColdhandsAh, thanks! So, he doesn't have the blue eyes of a wight but his eyes are "black". Were Bittersteel's eyes ever described as black?ETA: Looked Bittersteel up on the wiki:Bittersteel was a warrior, and looked the part. He was tall and well-made, but also lean and lithe. He was only half Targaryen, so he got the purple eyes, but his hair was black. As an adult he wore a close-cropped beard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profion Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Bloodraven fits more Odin than Loki, the Throne to see the realms, the crows, one eye... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Cornholio! Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 I dont see the correlation with Loki. BR really isnt that bad of a guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrafntýr Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Agree that BR is like Odin, and also agree that Bittersteel's head has been dipped in gold and is in the midst of the Golden Company's encampment. There's been speculation elsewhere that this might have been to prevent any sorcery with his corpse on the part of BR. Hard to see how CH could be Bittersteel, since CH seems to have a head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 This is a nice and well-thought theory, but I don't really buy it. I don't see how Bittersteel would be in the North or the NW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway Penguin Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Bittersteel's demise is pretty welldocumented. He cannot be coldhands unless BR had sewn someone else's head on the neck ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Cornholio! Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 The biggest piece of evidence negating this theory is the fact that cold hands is a brother of the nights watch. Bittersteel was not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 One quick thing, I think the Jotunn should be the Others and not the Children of the Forest. I know its a popular theory but we have no evidence that the COTF are connected with them other than being north. I think that's also why the Starks are labelled as evil sometimes. And Bran and Bloodraven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Wolf Smith Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 So, follow me. The adversaries of the gods are the Jötunn, or giants. They're portrayed as evil in the mythology, but GRRM is portraying them as oppressed instead (i.e. the Children of the Forest and their emissaries, like Bran). Everything is basically building up to Ragnarök, or the Long Night (which is literally what Ragnarök is -- a Long Night, after Fenrir, the Bound Wolf, swallows the sun -- and Surtr, i.e. Jon Snow, sets the world ablaze with his fiery sword).IIRC they are Ice giants. At least thats the way they are in Thor comics. I leave your topic theory alone as many have addressed why its wrong.IMO GRRM used Celtic myths first, and added in Norse myths to mix it up, at the start, but each has taken twist and turns and are no longer what they were. While I do think alot of what you have said is the base of aSoIaF, I don't believe they will stay true to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Umber Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 The biggest piece of evidence negating this theory is the fact that cold hands is a brother of the nights watch. Bittersteel was not.not to mention that his skull is covered in gold and being paraded around Essos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duncan Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 I don't know who Coldhands really is, but boy, I'd really like to find out! I'm probably not the only one who thought we'd finally found Benjen when Coldhands first appeared :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 I'm probably not the only one who thought we'd finally found Benjen when Coldhands first appeared :PNo, you're not (and I still believe we did ;) ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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