The Storm King Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 or maybe hes actually really really Aegon Targaryen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Apple Matrini - Do you find Elia's behavior ( sitting there with her kids and waiting enemy to come ) logical ?I think it's much more logical that she's holding onto her actual biological child for dear life than the idea that she's desperately clinging to an impostor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightSpectra Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Riddle me this, those who argue that Aegon is legitimate:Why did the Golden Company, a mercenary group of exiled Westerosi that supported the Blackfyres -- famed for never breaking a contract -- break their contract with Myr to come support Young Griff? They don't support any old Targs, seeing as how Dany recalls Viserys being laughed out of the room; and YG's position is really no better than Viserys' is.Why does Illyrio so carefully word his statements about Young Griff? Why specifically say that only the male line of Blackfyres died with Maelys, and not say "The Blackfyres were exterminated"? Why say "it makes no difference if the dragon is red or black" if he is propping up a king on the sole basis that he's the heir presumptive and not another bastard pretender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Apple Martini - Do you find Elia's behavior ( sitting there with her kids and waiting enemy to come ) logical ?EDIT: spelling mistake, one of countless todayNo. But desperately trying to barricade the door between her kids and the Mountain? Definitely yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Targaryen look can't be that god-like if even pissant kids in Flea Bottom can have it.ETA: I notice that your avatar is Bloodraven's sigil. Aegon actually being alive would be news to him, given that he seems to think Jon's the king. Oops?I'll ask again: Apart from Varys and JonCon's cover story, what evidence is there that this Aegon is the real one? Well, considering that most of Lys has the Valyrian looks, no, it isn't that god-like. Add to that the fact that Aegon IV very generously spread his genes across the country and it isn't that unlikely. And it isn't "kids", it's one kid. Maybe even Bloodraven can't know absolutely everything. Especially in the South. The reason I'm still arguing with you is that the whole Varys/Illyrio plan makes much more sense and is much more logical if Aegon is the real thing. Of course, I can very well be wrong and you may be right. But it might be the opposite. Fwiw, I don't think it would matter. Aegon will sit the throne, but not for long, so it would be irrelevant what color of dragon he is.And how does that negate any of what I said? Do they not have to get past a hostile force to scale walls?They were still barricaded inside the strongest part of one of the strongest keeps in Westeros, though. Even if it was lightly held it would have taken Gregor and Lorch a good deal of time and effort to get inside. It would still be a deal faster and stealthier than a head-on assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Well, considering that most of Lys has the Valyrian looks, no, it isn't that god-like. Add to that the fact that Aegon IV very generously spread his genes across the country and it isn't that unlikely. And it isn't "kids", it's one kid. Maybe even Bloodraven can't know absolutely everything. Especially in the South. The reason I'm still arguing with you is that the whole Varys/Illyrio plan makes much more sense and is much more logical if Aegon is the real thing. Of course, I can very well be wrong and you may be right. But it might be the opposite. Fwiw, I don't think it would matter. Aegon will sit the throne, but not for long, so it would be irrelevant what color of dragon he is.We're going to have to disagree then. The Blackfyre thing makes substantially more sense to me than the idea that two Essosi dudes like Varys and Illyrio would give a flying fuck about restoring the Targaryens, Illyrio especially.And again, other than "because Varys said so," I still see absolutely no evidence supporting that Aegon is real. We have prophecy (mummer's dragon), analytical thinking (our questions about the convenience of a switch and the point of a switch at all), historical parallels (Perkin Warbeck), thematic hinting (the dragon sign from the Quiet Isle) and good-old-fashioned non-gullibility. I'll take that over Varys' word, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Despot Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Well, yes, from that point of view you are certainly right. But, I didn't think to the exact moment of sack, but to the period after Trident generally. She knew that enemy is coming. She knew that Aerys is mad as a fruitcake. And decided to do nothing, just to hope that enemy will spare her and her children. It seems that things really did occur that way, but as I said, I find that odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady m Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 The reason I'm still arguing with you is that the whole Varys/Illyrio plan makes much more sense and is much more logical if Aegon is the real thing. Of course, I can very well be wrong and you may be right. But it might be the opposite.Actually, your scenario makes no sense from the angle that Varys began to try to undermine the Targaryens from the moment he got to KL, pitting Rhaegar against Aerys. So, Varys true intentions aren't exactly clearly pro Targaryen. It would still be a deal faster and stealthier than a head-on assaultAnd yet they would still have to make it past many guards, which provides time for Elia to reach her child that is terrified. She doesn't do that, you propose her abandoning Rhaenys to comfort a random child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranReq Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Why do some people belive Aegon is a Blackfyre?Is there a topic where this theory is posed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightSpectra Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Why do some people belive Aegon is a Blackfyre?Is there a topic where this theory is posed?The biggest hint is the support of the Golden Company. They are famed for never breaking a contract, but they did so to support Young Griff. The Golden Company was founded as a group of Westerosi that were exiled for supporting the Blackfyres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Storm King Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Why do some people belive Aegon is a Blackfyre?Is there a topic where this theory is posed?because of the story illyrio told tyrion. he married some silver hair girl who died. people assume that she was a blackfyre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 And again, other than "because Varys said so," I still see absolutely no evidence supporting that Aegon is real. We have prophecy (mummer's dragon), analytical thinking (our questions about the convenience of a switch and the point of a switch at all), historical parallels (Perkin Warbeck), thematic hinting (the dragon sign from the Quiet Isle) and good-old-fashioned non-gullibility. I'll take that over Varys' word, thanks. I never said "because Varys said so". You can believe whatever you want, just don't get snappy at me for disagreeing with your beliefs.ETA:For a start, I find it implausible that after so many POV chapters with us following her that her claim is superseded by Aegon VI's. I know that GRRM is hardly conventional, but I can't see why he'd want to piss off all those fans that prefer Dany to Aegon. One explanation is that his claim wouldn't matter in the end - either because she has dragons or because he will die before she even reaches Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Winters Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Why do some people belive Aegon is a Blackfyre?Is there a topic where this theory is posed?"Black or Red. A dragons still a dragon". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Aerys the Just Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 The biggest hint is the support of the Golden Company. They are famed for never breaking a contract, but they did so to support Young Griff. The Golden Company was founded as a group of Westerosi that were exiled for supporting the Blackfyres.This I can't agree with. If the plan is to keep who Aegon really is as secret as possible, so secret that he doesn't even seem to know that he is a Blackfyre himself, then I very much doubt that anybody in the Golden Company knows about that either. They likely believe that the Blackfyres have died out decades ago, which is why they would support an (as far as they know) red dragon as well as a black nowadays, as long as it gets them home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyneofcastamere Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I'm not convinced he is Rhaegar and Elia's son, JonCon was grieving for Rhaegar-saw only what he wanted to see, Tyrion was 9 at the time of the rebellion, how reliable is his evidence? Ultimetly Varys just needs a pawn, inheritence laws mean that "Aegon" has a better claim than Daenerys and will be the dominant king as men as superior to women within westerosi culture. "Aegon" is just a useful pawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Why do some people belive Aegon is a Blackfyre?Is there a topic where this theory is posed?There are a lot of threads where this theory is discussed. It would take me hours to copy/paste links, but google will light the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I never said "because Varys said so". You can believe whatever you want, just don't get snappy at me for disagreeing with your beliefs.Then what's your evidence? Because the only evidence in the story is, quite literally, "because Varys said so." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Then what's your evidence? Because the only evidence in the story is, quite literally, "because Varys said so." I have no evidence - I just have logic. I'm saying that the support Illyrio and Varys gave to Viserys and Dany makes absolutely no sense if Aegon isn't a Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I have no evidence - I just have logic. I'm saying that the support Illyrio and Varys gave to Viserys and Dany makes absolutely no sense if Aegon isn't a Targaryen.Illyrio and Varys realise that under the guise of a Targ, Aegon has a much better chance of taking the throne.Support of loyalists, support of Dany, support of Dorne etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Illyrio and Varys realise that under the guise of a Targ, Aegon has a much better chance of taking the throne.Support of loyalists, support of Dany, support of Dorne etc. They have Viserys. Why create a fake Targ when you have a real one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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