(f)Aegon. Who is he really?

[King Aerys the Just]

Above all, i believe that Varys is proud and ambitious. He's not gone to these extraordinary lengths to have a back slapping, nudge nudge wink wink session with Illyrio. He wants to start a dynasty.

And if Aegon is never outed, the Blackfyre name will be lost forever when V & I pass away.

I agree it's risky, but Varys will pick an opportune moment. I think there will be a civil war (of some kind) and maybe a dragon dance.

But that's just, like, my opinion.

Impersonating a perfumed, giggly, servile eunuch for years upon years doesn't sound like the work of an overly proud man to me. Well, at least not one who cares much about what other people think of him.

Just like how the lords flocked to Joffrey's banner only to discover that he wasn't Robert's son thus making their oaths invalid? Oh wait...

What!?

They never discovered that Joffrey wasn't Robert's son. Cersei's kids are all still officially Baratheons.

[Dr. Pepper]

What!?

They never discovered that Joffrey wasn't Robert's son. Cersei's kids are all still officially Baratheons.

It's a very open secret at this point. Cersei's kids are officially Baratheon, but it's pretty well known that they aren't from Robert's seed. Lady Olenna makes subtle comments about it at the wedding (Tommen's, I believe) and the smallfolk call Cersei brotherfucker during her walk of shame. Remember, Stannis sent out notes to all corners of the kingdom and had Davos post notices as well. Stannis also never fails to mention it.

People are going to follow who they are going to follow for one reason or another regardless of who the person they are following really is. Those who ally with (f)Aegon aren't going to turn away from him in droves just because there is suspicion that he's not really son of Rhaegar.

[yolkboy]

Impersonating a perfumed, giggly, servile eunuch for years upon years doesn't sound like the work of an overly proud man to me. Well, at least not one who cares much about what other people think of him.

His pride is to his cause. What else is driving him?

[Buried Treasure]

Just like how the lords flocked to Joffrey's banner only to discover that he wasn't Robert's son thus making their oaths invalid? Oh wait...

As Lame Name Display says the kids are officially still Baratheons, it is important for the Lannisters to maintain the fiction - so it would matter of one of Aegons backer up and announced he is really an imposter. And it is uncertain to the reader how many people at court really believe Stannis accusations against Cersei - some people are sticking to the lie to maintain their power but others probably still genuinely believe Tommen is Robert's heir.

[Faint]

I'm fairly certain that he is the son of Illyrio and Serra. Whether the latter is a Blackfyre I'm less certain of, although I strongly suspect that to be the case.

[King Aerys the Just]

It's a very open secret at this point. Cersei's kids are officially Baratheon, but it's pretty well known that they aren't from Robert's seed. Lady Olenna makes subtle comments about it at the wedding (Tommen's, I believe) and the smallfolk call Cersei brotherfucker during her walk of shame. Remember, Stannis sent out notes to all corners of the kingdom and had Davos post notices as well. Stannis also never fails to mention it.

People are going to follow who they are going to follow for one reason or another regardless of who the person they are following really is. Those who ally with (f)Aegon aren't going to turn away from him in droves just because there is suspicion that he's not really son of Rhaegar.

Not really. There is no proof, only rumours. What a mob in King's Landing thinks is of little concern.

Besides what you are portraying is a scenario in which he is suspected of being an impostor. That is very different from him (or Illyrio and Varys) publically proclaiming him as a Blackfyre rather than a Targaryen.

His pride is to his cause. What else is driving him?

Yeah, I agree. So why would he throw all of that away just so that some people would know that Aegon is a Blackfyre rather than a legitimate Targ? Why would he care about what they think anyway? It isn't in his character.

[yolkboy]

Yeah, I agree. So why would he throw all of that away just so that some people would know that Aegon is a Blackfyre rather than a legitimate Targ? Why would he care about what they think anyway? It isn't in his character.

Maybe he thinks they can win. It's not 'throwing it away' if you win.

[MercyTheBlindUglyLittleCat]

He's Aegon VI, "rightful" king, as was his great great great grandfather Daemon Blackfyre.

EDIT: I originally wrote "Aegon IV" but Aegon VI is just as unworthy.

[Dr. Pepper]

Not really. There is no proof, only rumours. What a mob in King's Landing thinks is of little concern.

Besides what you are portraying is a scenario in which he is suspected of being an impostor. That is very different from him (or Illyrio and Varys) publically proclaiming him as a Blackfyre rather than a Targaryen.

Why would Illyrio or Varys public proclamations mean anything to anyone when Stannis' public proclamations about Joffrey and co didn't exactly mean much to anyone of importance? Illyrio is in Pentos, Varys is presumed to be on the run.

As far as we know, Aegon believes he is the son of Rhaegar. Regardless if anyone has suspicions about this or even sends out ravens declaring he's an imposter, I can't see Aegon deciding to call himself Aegon Blackfyre when he's been raised to believe that he's Aegon son of Rhaegar. Even readers can't come to an agreement that suspicions about Aegon's true identity. I do not see any reason why some sort of public declaration about these suspicions will suddenly make those who flock to Aegon decide to abandon him.

[Reek Da Villain]

If he's not Rhaegar's son then he is a descendant of one of the Blackfyres from Tyrosh/Lys/Myr or wherever the black dragons went. Why else would he have the support of the Golden Company?

I doubt he was randomly selected by Varys. He's too well schooled.

[Malgarroth]

I'll also point out that if Varys can't get a small girl out of that castle, his knowledge of the Red Keep is embarrassingly overstated. "Ooooh I'm the Spider, Master of Whispers and I can't get a little girl out a giant castle." Pathetic. If he can get Tyrion out, he could've gotten Rhaenys out. Hell, he got friggin' ILLYRIO in and out of there with no one noticing, and people are arguing that smuggling Rhaenys out would've been too much?

Targaryen look can't be that god-like if even pissant kids in Flea Bottom can have it.

ETA: I notice that your avatar is Bloodraven's sigil. Aegon actually being alive would be news to him, given that he seems to think Jon's the king. Oops?

I'll ask again: Apart from Varys and JonCon's cover story, what evidence is there that this Aegon is the real one?

I feel that there's a rather large elephant in the room here.

Aerys, Tywin etc would have noticed if Rhaella had been switched, she was much older than Aegon. An imposter would've been spotted. I'm almost certain this was explicitly stated in the text.

[Zman1863]

Why would Illyrio or Varys public proclamations mean anything to anyone when Stannis' public proclamations about Joffrey and co didn't exactly mean much to anyone of importance? Illyrio is in Pentos, Varys is presumed to be on the run.

As far as we know, Aegon believes he is the son of Rhaegar. Regardless if anyone has suspicions about this or even sends out ravens declaring he's an imposter, I can't see Aegon deciding to call himself Aegon Blackfyre when he's been raised to believe that he's Aegon son of Rhaegar. Even readers can't come to an agreement that suspicions about Aegon's true identity. I do not see any reason why some sort of public declaration about these suspicions will suddenly make those who flock to Aegon decide to abandon him.

I doubt it would make everyone just jump up and rebel, but if it came from a source anyone considered reliable it would certainly create a pretext for future rebels. In a kingdom as decentralized as Westeros, the throne can never be considered secure. That the King actually comes from a line of would be usurpers and rebels could become a powerful weapon in the hands of some malcontent lord looking for allies. Thus I would think that anyone who would want a Blackfyre Aegon to have the best chance of keeping his throne and passing it on would keep quiet about his true origins. But as you say, Aegon himself has been raised to believe himself a Targ. This indicates that Varys and Illirio plan to hold to the cover story forever and just take private satisfaction if any of getting a Blackfyre on the Throne.

[Buried Treasure]

If he's not Rhaegar's son then he is a descendant of one of the Blackfyres from Tyrosh/Lys/Myr or wherever the black dragons went. Why else would he have the support of the Golden Company?

I doubt he was randomly selected by Varys. He's too well schooled.

I don' t follow. How is he too well schooled? His actual origins are irrelevant to his education as he has been told since a very young age that he is the real Aegon.

And why think the GC know anything? Only Harry Strickland even knew why they went to Volantis.They are a bunch of sellswords and by definition not trustworthy, half of the most senior officers are not even of Westerosi blood, so I have no idea why anyone would think they would be super loyal to the Blackfyres.

[Lord of Netcong]

I see 2 possibilites for Aegon...

1. The real Aegon was indeed killed during the Sack of Kings Landing. The baby who had its head smashed was the real Aegon and the current Aegon is an imposter, most likely a Blackfyre. Illyrio/Connigton/Varys told him he is Aegon, raised him to be Aegon, and taught him to be Aegon. He looks the part and acts the part but is not the real deal.

2. He really is Aegon. The story is for real and so is he. The mummer's dragon doesn't mean a "fake" dragon, it means Varys' dragon.

I don't believe that the real Aegon is hiding somewhere unknowingly with another identity. Either Aegon is totally real or totally fake.

Opinions?

[Blackfyre the Bold]

I don' t follow. How is he too well schooled? His actual origins are irrelevant to his education as he has been told since a very young age that he is the real Aegon.

And why think the GC know anything? Only Harry Strickland even knew why they went to Volantis.They are a bunch of sellswords and by definition not trustworthy, half of the most senior officers are not even of Westerosi blood, so I have no idea why anyone would think they would be super loyal to the Blackfyres.

The Golden Company was founded by a Blackfyre. Bittersteel asked for his skull to be brought with them when they marched to take Westeros and they have kept that skull after all these years. There is a definite connection between the Golden Company and the Blackfyre line.

My post was in response to GhostLink who said Aegon was randomly selected after Varys realized Daenerys would not be leaving Meereen. I'm saying he is too well schooled to be randomly selected. So yes, his origins are directly tied to his education. If he was told since he was a young boy that he is Aegon then how could he have possibly been Varys' choice only after he realized Daenerys was staying in Meereen.

I don't follow you.

[Buried Treasure]

Ah I missed that you were responding to a post suggesting he was picked after Dany hatch her dragons. That is clearly wrong, as Jon C has memories from years earlier. I was trying to make the point that his education doesn' t mean he can't be a boy of unimportant lineage (a random boy) selected for his looks as a toddler.

I know the history of the Golden Company but that doesn't make any of the individuals that run it now any more trustworthy. Recent exiles from the seven kingdoms and men of Essosi blood don't have any historical ties to House Blackfyre and they are just as much the company as the descendants of the original exiles. Why would they have all been trusted with such a secret? They went to Volantis because Strickland ordered them there, not because of Blackfyres.

[Blackfyre the Bold]

Ah I missed that you were responding to a post suggesting he was picked after Dany hatch her dragons. That is clearly wrong, as Jon C has memories from years earlier. I was trying to make the point that his education doesn' t mean he can't be a boy of unimportant lineage (a random boy) selected for his looks as a toddler.

I know the history of the Golden Company but that doesn't make any of the individuals that run it now any more trustworthy. Recent exiles from the seven kingdoms and men of Essosi blood don't have any historical ties to House Blackfyre and they are just as much the company as the descendants of the original exiles. Why would they have all been trusted with such a secret? They went to Volantis because Strickland ordered them there, not because of Blackfyres.

The Blackfyres left Westeros a long time ago. And there are a few unaccounted for. It's also implied that some of the original exiles had children. Those children would have grown in up in Essos, more than likely, and could have made several ties--in Essos. IMO, the Blackfyre line isn't extinct. The recent exiles you are talking about are just pawns--sellswords. But don't you find it interesting that some fans think Aegon is a Blackfyre and he is supported by the Golden Company which traces it's origins to the Blackfyre line?

And the Golden Company is a very reputable group, they're not so untrustworthy lol. I think the company itself is loyal to their founder and his goals. And anyone who joins--be it exiles from Westeros or men of Essosi blood.

[caravaggio]

Sorry if this has been mentioned already in the thread, but...

In regards to the argument that Aegon is real because of what Varys says to Kevan. All he says is Aegon is here in reply to Kevan saying Aegon is dead. Not that the two are the same, that the Aegon that is here is Aegon son of Rhaegar. What better name to give the Blackfyre you think is going to conquer Westeros than Aegon Targaryen? Afterall, the Blackfyres consider themselves the legitimate line of Targaryens.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I feel that there's a rather large elephant in the room here.

Aerys, Tywin etc would have noticed if Rhaella had been switched, she was much older than Aegon. An imposter would've been spotted. I'm almost certain this was explicitly stated in the text.

I said Rhaenys, not Rhaella. Not sure where you get the "much older" part unless you sincerely think I did mean Rhaella? A couple of years is not "much older." And if an impostor was spotted, so what? Just sneak the kids out and screw worrying about impostors. It's the "impostor" cover story that actually pushes the cover story into "bullshit" territory for me.

[Buried Treasure]

The Blackfyres left Westeros a long time ago. And there are a few unaccounted for. It's also implied that some of the original exiles had children. Those children would have grown in up in Essos, more than likely, and could have made several ties--in Essos. IMO, the Blackfyre line isn't extinct. The recent exiles you are talking about are just pawns--sellswords. But don't you find it interesting that some fans think Aegon is a Blackfyre and he is supported by the Golden Company which traces it's origins to the Blackfyre line?

And the Golden Company is a very reputable group, they're not so untrustworthy lol. I think the company itself is loyal to their founder and his goals. And anyone who joins--be it exiles from Westeros or men of Essosi blood.

Well I find fans thinking Aegon is a Blackfyre interesting, otherwise I would not spend my time on the internet debating it :wideeyed: . But I think those fans are wrong, and I think the part of the theory that says the GC secretly know they are supporting a Blackfyre especially wrong.

Of the 10,000 in the GC maybe 15-25 were in the council when Aegon was introduced. The other 9900+ were outside and had no idea about anything - as you put it pawns. The men inside the tent all had input into the debate over where to march so cannot lighlty be dismissed as pawns. When someone writes that ' the Golden Company knows Aegon is a Blackfyre' I take it to mean they are arguing it is this group of men who know, and it is my argument that this group of men that cannot be trusted with such a secret. The reputation of the company is good, but why believe these 20 individuals are trustworthy when nowhere in the series are 20 men uniformly loyal to anything. Take for instance the company spymaster, a Lyseniwho joined in the last 10 years, he is too highly ranked to be a pawn, so is he supposed to be on this secret? If everybody who joined was loyal to a Blackfyre restoration then Jon C, who mached with them for 5 years, would not have left to support a boy he believes to be a Targaryen.