(f)Aegon. Who is he really?

[Greyjoy pook]

He could be a Targaryen without being Rhaegar's son.

Aerion Brightflame was sent to Lys after the Ashford Tourney and he might've fathered some children there. When the time came for Rhaegar to be married, Lord Steffon Baratheon was sent to the Free cities to look for a bride for him. Combine the two together and it becomes likely that Brightflame's progeny might've lived in Lys. This would also explain why Aerys didn't select Elia from the very beginning - a descendant of Aerion would have a stronger dragon blood than the Martells.

This is exactly what I was thinking. While everyone debates if he's a Blackfyre (or if he's even that!), it would be entertaining and plausible for him to instead be a descendant of Brightflame's.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

This is exactly what I was thinking. While everyone debates if he's a Blackfyre (or if he's even that!), it would be entertaining and plausible for him to instead be a descendant of Brightflame's.

He could be both.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Think of Shakespeare. Characters having soliloquies that only the audience hears; they're not spoken because they're critical to the actual happening of things in the play, but they are spoken so the audience has a clearer insight into the thoughts of the characters.

I think Varys in the epilogue is having a soliloquy. Otherwise we're suggesting that Kevan needs to know something before he kicks the bucket, or that Varys' mute children have to be deceived for some reason; both of those hard to swallow.

I'm not saying that isn't necessarily the case. Just that there are multiple ways to read it and as such the epilogue can't really be used to support one argument or the other. It's deliberately vague.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

OK, so best you're proving here is that Varys did not explicitly lie, but was intentionally deceiving a dying man. Eddard had a clear motivation to do so -- he in no way wanted Robert to know about Jon's parentage -- but why would Varys be intentionally deceptive to a dying Kevan?

Every time Varys (or Littlefinger) says anything, I expect it to be a lie or a half-truth specifically tailored to create a certain response unless it's corrobated by three independent sources and something as simple as "the sky is blue".

That's just their method of operation.

[Mladen]

I think Varys in the epilogue is having a soliloquy. Otherwise we're suggesting that Kevan needs to know something before he kicks the bucket, or that Varys' mute children have to be deceived for some reason; both of those hard to swallow.

For a man that understands that in Red Keep walls have ears and that there`s always someone listening, it would be strange to tell loud what he thinks and knows. Even in soliloguy

[LightSpectra]

This is exactly what I was thinking. While everyone debates if he's a Blackfyre (or if he's even that!), it would be entertaining and plausible for him to instead be a descendant of Brightflame's.

Why trick us with all these hints that he's a Blackfyre (the Golden Company, the black dragon on the inn sign rusting into black, Illyrio saying it doesn't matter if the dragon is red or black, etc.) then?

[LightSpectra]

For a man that understands that in Red Keep walls have ears and that there`s always someone listening, it would be strange to tell loud what he thinks and knows. Even in soliloguy

Ah, yes, it's true that Qyburn could be listening. But that raises the question of why Varys is saying anything at all; he could cause much more discord in King's Landing if the assassinations looked like it was the Tyrells or Lannisters having at it against each other, rather than an agent of their common enemy.

[Greyjoy pook]

Why trick us with all these hints that he's a Blackfyre (the Golden Company, the black dragon on the inn sign rusting into black, Illyrio saying it doesn't matter if the dragon is red or black, etc.) then?

I couldn't tell you, but why did Aerys send Steffon to find a suitable match in the free cities, of all places? Why would he possibly look there before Westeros? And as Apple Martini pointed out, it's very possible he might be both a Blackfyre and Targaryen in descent to begin with. It would definitely be a tease, but it's the sort of thing I can see Martin pulling off regardless.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Ah, yes, it's true that Qyburn could be listening. But that raises the question of why Varys is saying anything at all; he could cause much more discord in King's Landing if the assassinations looked like it was the Tyrells or Lannisters having at it against each other, rather than an agent of their common enemy.

Could've been for the benefit of his own spies, who knows. Point stands: It is impossible to say for sure whether Aegon is real or fake based on the epilogue. Which is the point. That is literally all that I'm saying.

[Mladen]

Ah, yes, it's true that Qyburn could be listening. But that raises the question of why Varys is saying anything at all; he could cause much more discord in King's Landing if the assassinations looked like it was the Tyrells or Lannisters having at it against each other, rather than an agent of their common enemy.

Because if Varys knows he is being eavesdropped, then that entire dialogue is perfectly played. Varys is master of the game, and I believe that everything he says shouldn`t be taken lightly.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Ah, yes, it's true that Qyburn could be listening. But that raises the question of why Varys is saying anything at all; he could cause much more discord in King's Landing if the assassinations looked like it was the Tyrells or Lannisters having at it against each other, rather than an agent of their common enemy.

Varys is playing a long con*. One of the fundamental principles of a conman (or any liar) is to act as if his lie is the truth all the time. Bonus points if he convinces himself of it. That way there is no chance to slip.

* Funny, I never connected "con" to Jon Connington before.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Varys is playing a long con*. One of the fundamental principles of a conman (or any liar) is to act as if his lie is the truth all the time. Bonus points if he convinces himself of it. That way there is no chance to slip.

* Funny, I never connected "con" to Jon Connington before.

If I remember correctly, Littlefinger imparts this lesson to Sansa in the Vale. It's part of why they keep up the Alayne shtick even when they're alone and have no reason to.

[Runaway Penguin]

Of course another conman's trick is to say the truth when he is expected to lie... British intelligence pulled this trick on German intelligence prior to the D-Day (two compromised double agents reported correct time and place of Op Overlord - and thus got back into German "good books" and could pass more lies).

[Jon's Queen Consort]

For those who think Aegon is Blackfyre-Mopatis, who are you speculating is the mother?

Serra Blackfyre, Varys' sister, Illyrio Mopatis's second wife.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Of course another conman's trick is to say the truth when he is expected to lie... British intelligence pulled this trick on German intelligence prior to the D-Day (two compromised double agents reported correct time and place of Op Overlord - and thus got back into German "good books" and could pass more lies).

Of course. But that doesn't make anything Varys said reliable, just adds another layer to the question.

[lady m]

Of course another conman's trick is to say the truth when he is expected to lie... British intelligence pulled this trick on German intelligence prior to the D-Day (two compromised double agents reported correct time and place of Op Overlord - and thus got back into German "good books" and could pass more lies).

I don't think anyone that believes Aegon is fake thinks Varys specifically lied, however. He omitted information. Important information, but he didn't lie.

[Runaway Penguin]

I don't think anyone that believes Aegon is fake thinks Varys specifically lied, however. He omitted information. Important information, but he didn't lie.

I agree. Varys is pretty truthful chap... Just not honest. ;)

[Despot]

I would guess that he isn't Rhaegar's son, unfortunately. That kid, most probably, died at the sack of KL. (Which is, I need to add, also very strange. Aegon (the real one, the baby) was an heir to the throne at the moment I know that Aerys didn't allow Elia and her children to escape from the city; but I don't know why Elia didn't smuggle the baby at least. For example, Tommen was smuggled from the city during Stannis's attack. I found it is very logical to smuggle an heir in that situations).

So, if you ask me, he is a Blackfyre and Targaryan - most probably both through female line - descendant of Daemon Blackfyre and Aerion Brightflame. I don't know did Brightflame had any children at Lys, but I just looked at Wiki ASOIAF : He had an infant son, who was passed over in the succession (when Egg became the king). So, maybe that infant isn't in a story without a reason.

[Runaway Penguin]

Tommen was not smuggled during the attack, he was sent away way before it (and "stolen" by Bronn).

Once the Sack of KL came, it was waaaay too late to run.

[kiddkouture]

Serra Blackfyre, Varys' sister, Illyrio Mopatis's second wife.

Just because I must've missed it...where is the description of Serra?