[Book Spoilers] EP305 Discussion

[Joyful Union]

Second, Jon Snow story. In the last season, it was butchered, but now, it becomes a massacre. I'm thrilled with naked Rose Leslie, off course , and normally, I would not care for a connotation just to see her naked - but not now. For crying at loud, that should be a whole story, step - by - step progressing to sex and love , with some character changing for Jon Snow. And now...It looks like a totally random sex. Like "Why not?"

Wasnt it like that in the books though? That first night under the furs was completely random in the books, there was almost no lead up to it. At least here there was the Season 2 flirting.

[The Mondrian Oak]

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Why on earth did they cast a blonde girl as Shireen and didn't dye her hair? Doesn't it completely undermine the already tenious evidence as to why Cersei's children may be bastards and make Stannis even more of a hypocrite than he is in the books?

And those babies in jars were not only seriously gross, but some of them were far too large to be newborns.... More like 3-4 year-olds, what's the deal with that?

I really don't understand their choices re: hair color with Baratheons and Lannisters, given that it is such crucial part of the plot. I mean, Robert wasn't that much darker than Jaime and one could certainly imagine that at least Tommen's hair may have darkened to his color in time. Renly and Stannis also weren't dark enough. Tyrion is too dark. Now, Shireen is blonde? Why do they carelessly slaughter one of the more important plot elements in the series?

To be honest, I always thought that the "hair colour evidence" in the books (as in the show) was the WEAKEST plot device in the whole story. I've seen loads of children whose hair colour does not match with their parent's. That is not how genetics work. Now, I cannot remember properly, but was that the ONLY evidence Ned had about the whole thing (besides Cersei's confession)? I hope not, because, if it was, that was the luckiest shot in the history of Andals.

Maybe the assumption was reinforced by the fact that ALL of Robert's (Jaime's) children are blonde. Thus, Shireen's blonde hair can be excused. Who knows, maybe all three babies in the jars had black hair!

Edited April 30, 2013 by The Mondrian Oak

[Khal Porno]

I didn't appreciate the borderline homophobic undertones.

[Despot]

@Joyful Union

Well, I don't know for sure, I remembered it as a process : she tried, and tried, and tried, while he was fighting himself; finally (and naturally :) , he broke. That cave -scene was a peak of their...well, relationship, lets' put it that way. And here, it doesn't have that weight.It was just, boom. And I'm not sure that they have enough time do add additional weight to that part of the story, because, I don't expect Ygritte to live longer than a few episodes. Sadly.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Despot

[Gendels Children]

What makes it so funny is that I could definitely see Roose in that sort of situation if it would have happened exactly like that in the books and really not give a shit haha.

would he swish? ;)

[FattyPeon]

I think they'll ease in tensions through the Sansa marriage and make it more like jealousy rather than Book Shae's shallowness, self interest and vanity. Not sure how I feel about it. As Varys said, Tyrion knew what she was in the books but was too blind to see it out of wishful thinking. In that way he overreacted to a "betrayal" that really wasn't any worse than Bronn's defection. He probably would have been inclined to agree with this if his father hadn't factored into it. If her role in the show is to betray him out of some sort of jealousy it might mess that dynamic up.

She lied at his trial and intentionally humiliated him in front of the court.

Wasnt it like that in the books though? That first night under the furs was completely random in the books, there was almost no lead up to it. At least here there was the Season 2 flirting.

She was hanging around him like a pest, she would bed down next to him like a ninja, and he would wake up with her clinging to him etc, pretty sweet really. Then she lies to Mance and says they're already banging, to get Jon out of trouble for lying, then they go in the cave.

[Gendels Children]

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To be honest, I always thought that the "hair colour evidence" in the books (as in the show) was the WEAKEST plot device in the whole story. I've seen loads of children whose hair colour does not match with their parent's. That is not how genetics work. Now, I cannot remember properly, but was that the ONLY evidence Ned had about the whole thing (besides Cersei's confession)? I hope not, because, if it was, that was the luckiest shot in the history of Andals.

Maybe the assumption was reinforced by the fact that ALL of Robert's (Jaime's) children are blonde. Thus, Shireen's blonde hair can be excused. Who knows, maybe all three babies in the jars had black hair!

do u know why them weird warning things are coming up?

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

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To be honest, I always thought that the "hair colour evidence" in the books (as in the show) was the WEAKEST plot device in the whole story. I've seen loads of children whose hair colour does not match with their parent's. That is not how genetics work. Now, I cannot remember properly, but was that the ONLY evidence Ned had about the whole thing (besides Cersei's confession)? I hope not, because, if it was, that was the luckiest shot in the history of Andals.

Maybe the assumption was reinforced by the fact that ALL of Robert's (Jaime's) children are blonde. Thus, Shireen's blonde hair can be excused. Who knows, maybe all three babies in the jars had black hair!

I think that Ned had a lot more evidence than just "well the book says so" like Gendry being a spitting image of young robert, how much all the baratheon brothers look alike and something else that i don't remember.

[The Mondrian Oak]

do u know why them weird warning things are coming up?

I have no idea. I've seen them in other posts (not mine) as well!

[The Mondrian Oak]

I think that Ned had a lot more evidence than just "well the book says so" like Gendry being a spitting image of young robert, how much all the baratheon brothers look alike and something else that i don't remember.

Well, I suppose that Cersei's confession helped a lot. And the fact that all Lannister children were blonde did too. Anyway, I think that Shireen's blonde hair can be excused, genetics are dodgy. I have a friend who used to be a redhead (Kissed by fire-like) when she was a child, and who's now black haired.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

I thought it was due to the high traffic after the show aired

[Ser Cookie Monster]

Well, I suppose that Cersei's confession helped a lot. And the fact that all Lannister children were blonde did too. Anyway, I think that Shireen's blonde hair can be excused, genetics are dodgy. I have a friend who used to be a redhead (Kissed by fire-like) when she was a child, and who's now black haired.

I think it could be more easily excused in the books. The books didn't stablish that ALL the baratheons had black hair. It isaid that always when Lannisters and Baratheon mixed, the Baratheons were dominant, and the kids had black hair. But in the show they dropped the Baratheons + Lannisters = black hair detail, and simply said that Baratheons = black of hair. So, only considering the show, Shireen's hair can hardly be excused.

[The Mondrian Oak]

I think it could be more easily excused in the books. The books didn't stablish that ALL the baratheons had black hair. It isaid that always when Lannisters and Baratheon mixed, the Baratheons were dominant, and the kids had black hair. But in the show they dropped the Baratheons + Lannisters = black hair detail, and simply said that Baratheons = black of hair. So, only considering the show, Shireen's hair can hardly be excused.

Yes, that is also true. I don't know, maybe there's a reason for her hair. The casting on this show has always been perfect. I mean, relatives in this show really look like relatives (Renly being maybe one of the few exceptions). And I don't think a wig or a hair dye would have been a problem at all. The casting/makeup departmenst are all but lazy. So, who knows.

Edited April 30, 2013 by The Mondrian Oak

[Gendels Children]

I have no idea. I've seen them in other posts (not mine) as well!

they keep happening on my but i just edit and delete it

[Kvvothe]

Another good episode, I am just wondering where the Great Jon has been? Have they cut the character?

[Gendels Children]

Yes, that is also true. I don't know, maybe there's a reason for her hair. The casting on this show has always been perfect. I mean, relatives in this show really look like relatives (Renly being maybe one of the few exceptions). And I don't think a wig or a hair dye would have been a problem at all. The casting/makeup departmenst are all but lazy. So, who knows.

yeah it does seem a rather noteable mistake, perhaps they are just getting a little sloppy with the details, there are alot of thing they need to keep in mind due to the large amount of info we recieve in the books, but this seems like one thing they wouldnt be likely to slip on. i mean when they were killing the bastards did u notice that all the older ones looked like gendry, one i almost though was him.

[Gendels Children]

Another good episode, I am just wondering where the Great Jon has been? Have they cut the character?

yeah he seems to have turned invisable

[The Mondrian Oak]

yeah it does seem a rather noteable mistake, perhaps they are just getting a little sloppy with the details, there are alot of thing they need to keep in mind due to the large amount of info we recieve in the books, but this seems like one thing they wouldnt be likely to slip on. i mean when they were killing the bastards did u notice that all the older ones looked like gendry, one i almost though was him.

Ok, I'm about to make something COMPLETELY up. I know for certain that lack of sunlight=lack of melanine=hair goes paler. Shireen is shut in a tower. I'm going to pretend that this is what it is all about.

[Maia]

Ned had the book (which, given that it was 5-6 generations old is useless evidence from realistic PoV), appearance of the 2 bastards he saw, LF's insinuations that all the others looked the same, appearance of Stannis and Renly and possibly appearance of Shireen and Edric, who were sufficiently known that Ned would have had an idea how they looked like even if he never saw them.

And yes, it was that all 3 of Cersei's kids were blonde - Tyrion thought that if she had even one child by Robert, her kid's position would have been unassailable.

Now, in the series, the Baratheon brothers are actually brown-haired in the way that a blonde child may eventually grow into, ditto Gendry, Jaime is not much fairer than them, Tommen is the mousy color that will turn dark brown in time and Shireen is blonde!

I really don't understand why they didn't dye Baratheon hair black and Jaime's and Tyrion's fairer, as well as either picked really blonde kids for Tommen and Myrcella (there are enough of them among the bit parts) or dyed them too.

Funnily enough, as things stand, Jon looks the most Baratheon of the lot!

Oh, and re: Cersei's confession, it was private between her and Ned, Stannis can't use it as evidence. If he has a blonde daughter, he has no cause. It is such a senseless, counter-productive change, I don't understand why they went there....

Edited April 30, 2013 by Maia

[The Mondrian Oak]

Ned had the book (which, given that it was 5-6 generations old is useless evidence from realistic PoV), appearance of the 2 bastards he saw, LF's insinuations that all the others looked the same, appearance of Stannis and Renly and possibly appearance of Shireen and Edric, who were sufficiently known that Ned would have had an idea how they looked like even if he never saw them.

And yes, it was that all 3 of Cersei's kids were blonde - Tyrion thought that if she had even one child by Robert, her kid's position would have been unassailable.

Now, in the series, the Baratheon brothers are actually brown-haired in the way that a blonde child may eventually grow into, ditto Gendry, Jaime is not much fairer than them, Tommen is the mousy color that will turn dark brown in time and Shireen is blonde!

I really don't understand why they didn't dye Baratheon hair black and Jaime's and Tyrion's fairer, as well as either picked really blonde kids for Tommen and Myrcella (there are enough of them among the bit parts) or dyed them too.

Funnily enough, as things stand, Jon looks the most Baratheon of the lot!

Oh, and re: Cersei's confession, it was private between her and Ned, Stannis can't use it as evidence. If he has a blonde daughter, he has no cause. It is such a senseless, counter-productive change, I don't understand why they went there....

I don't know, maybe having all members of the same familiy with the same hair colour would have looked too cartoonish. Blondes vs Brunets vs Redheads. In fact, that does not happen in real life. But that made Ned's assumption weak, although it was already silly in the book. But, to be honest, people's colours have never been the best part of Martin's story (the Targ's purple eyes are just idiotic).