are the female leads stronger characters than the males?

[StarkDragon]

No, he didn't, unless you're equating " having sex" to submission, in which case fuck you because I can't think of a Florinaism suitable for that level of whatthefuckery.

No, he didn't, unless you're equating " having sex" to submission, in which case fuck you because I can't think of a Florinaism suitable for that level of whatthefuckery.

No, he didn't, unless you're equating " having sex" to submission, in which case fuck you because I can't think of a Florinaism suitable for that level of whatthefuckery.

C-C-C-Combo!

[yolkboy]

whatthefuckery

and so... a new word is born

[Table8]

Are you sure?

http://fozmeadows.wordpress.com/2012/12/08/psa-your-default-narrative-settings-are-not-apolitical/

Excellent rebuttal. You took my point and provided an exact counter argument for it. Well done!!!

[Winter's Knight]

C-C-C-Combo!

Lol. Using an iPad, sorry guys!

Now OP: I think that in ASoIaF, you have strong and weak characters with the divide falling equally between men and women. You have Ned and Cersei embracing dishonor for their children, Sansa, Arya and Lancel all coming to terms with a society that has no respect for them and finding the courage to turn away, you have Cersei and Tyrion, both of whom are unable to escape from their father, Asha and Theon swallowed by a bitter man's vengeance for his dead sons, Jaime and Brienne both searching for their honour and Dany and Jon both with the vision and courage to upset systems that have endured for millennia all for justice.

[Winter's Knight]

Excellent rebuttal. You took my point and provided an exact counter argument for it. Well done!!!

Oh, always willing to oblige. :blush:

[PrimeRhaegar]

Cat is one of the strongest women in the book she has my respect no lie. Asha oh hell ya definition of a strong woman, dany arianne the sand snakes brienne (proabably the strongest woman in the series, physically and mentally).

I do think cersei is abrasive, and strong willed strong is not something she is. The other woman oh lord their history alone showed you how strong they were

[bbstark]

Top 5 strongest POV characters:

1. Victarion

2. Brienne

3. Areo Hotah

4. Ser Jaime

5. Selmy the Bold

Looks like the men are stronger imo.

I'm sorry, but i'm going to have to ask you to show your work on #1.

Why is Victarion the strongest character, please? Please explain why after finding out his brother raped his wife, he murdered his wife, and why this is a sign of strength.

Be as elaborate as possible.

[gash]

Can you please explain to me what you mean by "strong"?

so Dany who the only think that she does in Dance is to daydream about Darrio isn't a strong person?

??

why does every comment about stannis have to be in relation to dany for some people?

and i've posted what i meant by "strong" earlier in the thread.

[gash]

I'm sorry, but i'm going to have to ask you to show your work on #1.

Why is Victarion the strongest character, please? Please explain why after finding out his brother raped his wife, he murdered his wife, and why this is a sign of strength.

Be as elaborate as possible.

it takes a huge amount of strength not to murder his brother. killing him would have been the easiest option.

[bbstark]

it takes a huge amount of strength not to murder his brother. killing him would have been the easiest option.

so he had no strength left over not to murder his wife? So he murdered his wife, the person that was actually the victim in the rape, to show his strength and kept his brother alive.

you've got to be trolling me!

[gash]

so he had no strength left over not to murder his wife? So he murdered his wife, the person that was actually the victim in the rape, to show his strength and kept his brother alive.

you've got to be trolling me!

murdering his wife was not kinslaying. to hold himself back from every urge of his being to kill euron because of the taboo of kinslaying took incredible inner strength. most men could not do it.

[thenedstark]

I don't know about what "strong" is. It can mean different things to different people.

At least the TV series passes the Bechdel Test:

http://faustusnotes.wordpress.com/2012/06/01/does-game-of-thrones-pass-the-bechdel-test/

[Lord Reaver]

so he had no strength left over not to murder his wife? So he murdered his wife, the person that was actually the victim in the rape, to show his strength and kept his brother alive.

There's no definite rape. Victarion says Euron "seduced" her, which might indicate she was a willing partner. Then again it might not, but jumping to the rape conclusion is fallacious.

[bbstark]

There's no definite rape. Victarion says Euron "seduced" her, which might indicate she was a willing partner. Then again it might not, but jumping to the rape conclusion is fallacious.

fine, so it might have been concensual, if she wasn't a victim of rape, she was a victim of domestic abuse and its' disgusting

You can't seriously argue that beating your wife dead is strength!!!

That's the weakest, slimiest, most repulsive action a man can commit, domestically abusing his family

And btw. when you marry a woman, technically she becomes your Kin, he still committed kinslaying.

[David Selig]

murdering his wife was not kinslaying. to hold himself back from every urge of his being to kill euron because of the taboo of kinslaying took incredible inner strength. most men could not do it.

It's not strength, it's just a combo of cowardliness and superstition.

[gash]

fine, so it might have been concensual, if she wasn't a victim of rape, she was a victim of domestic abuse and its' disgusting

You can't seriously argue that beating your wife dead is strength!!!

That's the weakest, slimiest, most repulsive action a man can commit, domestically abusing his family

And btw. when you marry a woman, technically she becomes your Kin, he still committed kinslaying.

??

he simply said euron didn't rape her and your response is well victarion beat her? what's your point exactly?

and no, killing your wife in the ASOIAF world is not kinslaying. otherwise it would be pretty terrible writing for vic to be worrying about kinslaying by killing euron having just killed his wife.

[bbstark]

??

he simply said euron didn't rape her and your response is well victarion beat her? what's your point exactly?

and no, killing your wife in the ASOIAF world is not kinslaying. otherwise it would be pretty terrible writing for vic to be worrying about kinslaying by killing euron having just killed his wife.

It sure is comforting to know that people who are prevented from justifying rape due to the mods' restrictions on the forums find ways around it...

Domestic abuse everyone! and it's not just ok and justified... it's a sign of strength ;)

good job gash, you outdid yourself

[Garlan Marius]

I'm sorry, but i'm going to have to ask you to show your work on #1.

Why is Victarion the strongest character, please? Please explain why after finding out his brother raped his wife, he murdered his wife, and why this is a sign of strength.

Be as elaborate as possible.

I honestly thought he was going for "physical strength" in the post. I chuckled, and scrolled on.

[bbstark]

I honestly thought he was going for "physical strength" in the post. I chuckled, and scrolled on.

the whole thing is so ridiculous, especially considering where the discussion ends :lol:

(I'm not completely innocent, it was obviously a troll trap :devil: ... but whatever, I don't care, you do not throw domestic abuse in my face as a sign of strength... what's next? Aerys for husband of the year???)

[the trees have eyes]

Interesting question though the discussion may not end well. ASOIAF has a very strong cast of characters and part of the appeal of GRRM for me is how well he writes his characters, male or female, adult or child. The Arya and Bran chapters are some of the most skilfully written imo as they must be the hardest to get in character for. As for whether the female leads are stronger than the male, that will be in the eye of the beholder, its purely subjective based on the reader's response to the characters. None of GRRM's POV characters are weak for me though I believe we have three main characters: Jon, Dany, Tyrion; primary characters Bran, Sansa, Arya; secondary characters Jaime, Cersei, Theon, Davos and Brienne. The additions in AFFC of Arianne, Asha, Victarion and Aeron feel more like a supporting cast and I can't quite see Areo Hotah, Arys Oakheart, Jon Connington or even Barristan Selmy as anything more than prologue / epilogue storytellers. Ned and Catelyn were debatably main characters until the story moved past them but they certainly felt more fleshed out in more depth and more integral to the story than the secondary characters. If you take Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Sansa, Arya and Bran I believe above all you have a balance and I think GRRM has done that very well. they are all great characters and have broad appeal.