Wherefore art thou, Seven?

[Mikkel]

Magic is real in Westeros, Gods on the other hand... that remains to be seen (or, more likely, left unanswered).

[WinterKing]

Magic is real in Westeros, Gods on the other hand... that remains to be seen (or, more likely, left unanswered).

If you consider the Old Gods as the greenseers,then they are real,but if they are gods is other question.

[chrisdaw]

They think magic is evil so no.

The warrior's sons were believed to be sorcerers among other things.

The faith will have their miracles.

[Starfell]

The faith of the Seven, as the name suggests, is based on faith. The people need to believe the Gods exist without any kind of proof.

What the Red Priests have done may have something to do with R'hllor, which proves his existence and omnipotence, or maybe they just have powers because magic is returning to the world. Like we saw in Mel's chapter, most of the things she has done so far were no more than mere tricks. The birth of the shadows is the only magical thing Melsiandre has done. She's quite inept at interpreting the visions in the flames. Thoros' Kiss of Life is another magic deed associated with the Red God, but like I said, it may just be attributed to the return of magic. Wargs are special people that have a magical connection to their animals. The Red Priests may just be special individuals with special powers as well.

They may not have anything to do with the Red God, or they may owe all their powers to him. It's all a matter of perspective and faith.

Also, I'd like to point out that Melisandre's tricks with the leeches had nothing to do with the deaths of Robb, Balon and Joffrey. The plans for the Red Wedding were already in motion, Euron was on his way home by that time.

Mel might interpret her visions incorrectly but the visions themselves are undeniably supernatural, as are her glamours, her ability to function without food or sleep and the way she won the drinking contest with Maester Cressen. I'm not saying that it's all R'hllor rather than just magic, but Mel certainly has some damn powerful sorcery to her.

With regards to the Seven, if we go with the Gravedigger=Sandor theory then it's possible that he was healed by magic/divine intervention from what should have been a fatal wound (or at least requiring an amputation), isn't the Elder Brother supposed to have healing hands?

[Syphon the Sanitator]

I like the idea of seven people as the avatars of the Seven. Time for random speculation!

Gendry = Smith

Sansa = Maid

Olenna = Crone

Arya = Stranger

Jon Connington = Father

Daenerys = Mother

Jaime = Warrior

[mindchap]

As long as Arya=Stranger then I'm game.

[Lady Arya's Song]

Sansa also sang and prayed to the Seven just before the Blackwater Bay battle. It seems to me that a careful reading of her POVs and also Tyrions and Cerseis..both characters dismiss or belittle Sansa's prayer time and her faith. I have often wondered if Martin has written it to reflect uncomfortableness with a character who is naive but also more honorable than Tyrion and Cersei,,,in other words are they ( Tyrion the skeptic about faith, and Cersei who hates Sansa for being innocent) half afraid the Seven listen to Sansa's prayers? Whatever, but here is the point..in all Sansa's prayers to the Old Gods or the Seven..every one has been answered. She prays for a knight and Sandor always appears.

Samwell also sang a song of the Seven and gave his vows to the Old Godfs but he sang a song of the Seven to Gilley and her baby just before they were attacked by Small Paul, and the ravens came and attacked the wrights. Remember that Bran is part of the Old God system now but he also grew up believing in the Seven..so perhaps he can hear both and is the one responsable for helping the characters.

Catelyn also prayed to Seven the night before Renly and Stannis fought I believe in a small sept. She saw Arya's face in the Warrior along with other faces. I think the Seven are playing a role in the storyline right alongside of the Old Gods and the Red one.

Someone above already mentioned Sandor on the Quiet Isle and his healing.

[SeanF]

Lady Arya's Song, excellent points. I think that's the point about faith. You can view these events as coincidences, or if you are a follower of the Faith, you view them as the Seven answering your prayers.

[The Marquis de Leech]

I like the idea of seven people as the avatars of the Seven. Time for random speculation!

Gendry = Smith

Sansa = Maid

Olenna = Crone

Arya = Stranger

Jon Connington = Father

Daenerys = Mother

Jaime = Warrior

Ned = Father

Catelyn = Mother

Robb = Warrior

Sansa = Maiden

Bran = Smith (rebuilds Winterfell?)

Arya = Crone

Rickon = Stranger

The last three are a bit fuzzy, but otherwise the Starks fit nicely.

[yolkboy]

I'd go with Brienne over Sansa for 'the maid'.

1. The maid represents chastity - i think Brienne values chastity/sexual abstinence, whereas Sansa hasn't had sex yet for different reasons.

2. I don't think Sansa will be a maiden for much longer.

Arya for the stranger, as she seems to be training to be a messenger of death (as the FM see it)

Melisandre for the Crone, given she might be hundreds of years old under her glamor. Though she's not always 'wise' so i dunno.

Gendry for the Smith as i think he'll make an important weapon/armour by the end. He's one of only 2 people we know of likely to be able to rework Valyrian steel.

It's useful to look at the definitions.

• Father, or the Father Above, representing judgment. He is depicted as a bearded man who carries scales, and is prayed to for justice.
  
• Mother, or the Mother Above, representing motherhood and nurturing. She is prayed to for fertility or compassion, and is depicted as smiling with love, embodying the concept of mercy.
  
• Warrior, representing strength in battle. He is prayed to for courage and victory. He carries a sword.
  
• Maiden, representing innocence and chastity. She is usually prayed to to protect a maiden's virtue.
  
• Smith, representing crafts and labor. He is usually prayed to when work needs to be done, for strength. He carries a hammer.
  
• Crone, representing wisdom. She carries a lantern and is prayed to for guidance.
  
• Stranger. An exception to the other aspects, the Stranger represents death and the unknown. Worshipers rarely seek favor from the Stranger, but outcasts sometimes associate themselves with this god.
  

[Lady Arya's Song]

I really like what you posted Roose Bolton's Pet Leach regarding the Starks each being one of the Seven. They do fit very nicely.

I have speculated about the Seven and families in Westeros for a while. My theory was that perhaps the dysfunctional families like the Lannisters for example might be due to missing persons of the Seven or figures who subvert the qualities that each of the Seven was supposed to bring to a family. See below.

The Lannister Seven

Father = Tywin

Mother = Joanna but dead for most of her children's lives affecting the father and the children

Crone = in Cerseis POV the crone ended up being the Maegi . Possibly the Aunt who married the Frey guy. Jenna is a stand in for Jaimie and Tryrion but there is a lack of influence from an older woman in the Lannister children's lives.

Warrior = Jaimie

Smith= Kevin

Stranger= Tyrion

Maiden = Cersei

[yolkboy]

Maiden = Cersei

Ha!

Maiden, representing innocence and chastity.

C'mon.

[Sullen]

Father: Eddard

Mother: Dany

Maid: Brienne

Warrior: Robert

Smith: Tyrion

Crone: Bran

Stranger: Theon

[SeanF]

That might be how Cersei sees herself.

[yolkboy]

Crone: Bran

The crone is represented as a female.

regarding Arya as the stranger...

"The House of Black and White contains a public shrine with idols of many death gods, including the Stranger."

[Sullen]

The crone is represented as a female.

Sex matters little.

Would you say Brienne could not be the Warrior for instance?

[Lady Arya's Song]

At one point Cersei was a maiden..however the Lannisters invert the symbolic qualities of the Seven. I think Sansa POV says that Cersei dressed like the maiden during the Blackwater Bay battle..however Cersei in my opinion has never acted like a maiden in the true sense..lol

[yolkboy]

Sex matters little.

So the maid could be male? The father be female? The mother male?

Would you say Brienne could not be the Warrior for instance?

I agree Brienne is 'a' warrior, but the 7's warrior is a male, so no. Maybe the faith has misinterpreted the sexes and you're right, but i don't think so personally.

I wonder if this quote hints at Jaime being the warrior?

"Why would Cercei need the Warrior? She has me"

[Sullen]

Yes, the avatar of the Maid could be male... though their are way more female candidates.

The Mother and Father are pretty much the only roles I see as gender-exclusive.

[Sullen]

I really like what you posted Roose Bolton's Pet Leach regarding the Starks each being one of the Seven. They do fit very nicely.

I have speculated about the Seven and families in Westeros for a while. My theory was that perhaps the dysfunctional families like the Lannisters for example might be due to missing persons of the Seven or figures who subvert the qualities that each of the Seven was supposed to bring to a family. See below.

The Lannister Seven

Father = Tywin

Mother = Joanna but dead for most of her children's lives affecting the father and the children

Crone = in Cerseis POV the crone ended up being the Maegi . Possibly the Aunt who married the Frey guy. Jenna is a stand in for Jaimie and Tryrion but there is a lack of influence from an older woman in the Lannister children's lives.

Warrior = Jaimie

Smith= Kevin

Stranger= Tyrion

Maiden = Cersei

Lancel would make a good Maiden.