Will the Freys give up their hostages?

[Precursor]

Given their violation of guest right I'm not sure they only have two kingdoms of enemies. I'd say every other house, or at least those wishing to continue the guest right norm have a very good reason to punish, destroy, burn, murder, annihilate, and obliterate the Frey's. Allowing such a derogation to go unpunished would begin to undermine guest right, thereby threatening everyone when they travel.

[Lady Nastja]

Without Jaime there to tell them twice, its unsure. While on the one hand they may know that they have to send the hostages on no matter what they may want, on the other hand, they may not have taken Jaime seriously and/or decide to keep the hostages for as long as they can.

I believe they'll try to send the to KL and be ambushed by the BWB. All of the hostages will be set free and then its game on.

This is my ideal outcome, however unlikely.

[The Sleeper]

What is he supposed to do with them?

If he simply releases his hostages, he loses face.

If he keeps them against royal orders, it will strain his relationship with the Iron Throne. The Iron Throne is weak, but it might still be strong enough to squash his opposition.

ehh. Keep them as insurance against the northern and river lords? Collect ransoms? Bargaining chips? All of the above? Killing them is them most useless option. And it is not the question of wheteher the Iron Throme has the potential to squash them. Of course it does. Is it politically worth raising a sizeable host to assault their one definite ally in the riverlands over hostages. With everything else going on? I don't think so. And old Walder is the kind of guy who will push the situation to the brink.

[Northbound]

If they have any brains, when they decide to move the Great Jon; for their own safety, I hope he is chained, re-chained and chained again. For that dude is going to go, full on bat-shit-berserker mode. He is the last person, I would want to face...if he is freed.

[Lion of Judah]

It wouldn't be wise for them to hold onto the hostages, considering that the newly found House Frey of Riverrun needs support to strengthen their grasp on the Riverlands. It won't be wise to have pissed off vassals waiting to pick a fight.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

While I think we'll see the prisoners (Greatjon, Patrek Mallister, Marq Piper) again, wasn't it Ryman Frey who was supposed to bring that order from Jaime to the Twins? Ryman Frey was hanged on the way — he never made it. So if they're still there, it's not a case of "We're not giving up our prisoners," but rather the fact that Jaime's orders were lost en route.

[Fire Eater]

While I think we'll see the prisoners (Greatjon, Patrek Mallister, Marq Piper) again, remember that it was Ryman Frey who was supposed to bring that order from Jaime to the Twins. Ryman Frey was hanged on the way — he never made it. So if they're still there, it's not a case of "We're not giving up our prisoners," but rather the fact that Jaime's orders were lost en route.

Jaime actually tells that Edwyn and Bastard Walder in his final POV.

The Freys will give up their hostages, to refuse to do so would be bordering on treason, and they can't afford to lose the support of the IT when they are surrounded by enemies.

Lady Stoneheart will ambush the Frey party bringing the prisoners to KL, and free them. They might even take part in the RW 2.0.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Jaime actually tells that Edwyn and Bastard Walder in his final POV.

The Freys will give up their hostages, to refuse to do so would be bordering on treason, and they can't afford to lose the support of the IT when they are surrounded by enemies.

Lady Stoneheart will ambush the Frey party bringing the prisoners to KL, and free them. They might even take part in the RW 2.0.

Yeah I edited it when I realized he might have given the order after Ryman left. Good call.

[mcbigski]

I hope so. I really want GreatJon to be the one to stab Roose through the heart and tell him that the King of the North sends his regards.

No, that should definitely be Nan's job. Poison him first and then while he's dying explain why she looks so familiar, apart from just being his former cupbearer. She's nearly the spitting image of Lyanna Stark, after all...

[Faint]

The Freys will give up their hostages, to refuse to do so would be bordering on treason, and they can't afford to lose the support of the IT when they are surrounded by enemies.

I still question whether anybody in King's Landing even knows about this order. It goes unmentioned in the epilogue of A Dance with Dragons despite continued discussion about everything else under the sun.

Outside that consideration, I am not entirely sure it is of any benefit for Walder Frey to release the hostages. There is no Lannister force presently supporting the Freys and there is unlikely to be one any time soon capable of carrying out the king's justice. Moreover, with everything going on in King's Landing, with the continued Ironborn incursion in the Reach, as well as the invasion of Aegon and the Golden Company, Walder Frey is in prime position to ignore the order for a good while yet. In short, nobody in King's Landing is going to waste sending men to the Twins in order to force the Freys into complying in present circumstances.

[Fire Eater]

I still question whether anybody in King's Landing even knows about this order. It goes unmentioned in the epilogue of A Dance with Dragons despite continued discussion about everything else under the sun.

Outside that consideration, I am not entirely sure it is of any benefit for Walder Frey to release the hostages. There is no Lannister force presently supporting the Freys and there is unlikely to be one any time soon capable of carrying out the king's justice. Moreover, with everything going on in King's Landing, with the continued Ironborn incursion in the Reach, as well as the invasion of Aegon and the Golden Company, Walder Frey is in prime position to ignore the order for a good while yet. In short, nobody in King's Landing is going to waste sending men to the Twins in order to force the Freys into complying in present circumstances.

It goes unmentioned in ADwD, because we have only one POV in the riverlands and Jaime has other things on his mind. Walder Frey will release the hostages as his house is bound to the Lannisters.

[Faint]

It goes unmentioned in ADwD, because we have only one POV in the riverlands and Jaime has other things on his mind. Walder Frey will release the hostages as his house is bound to the Lannisters.

Even assuming that Cersei Lannister is aware of the order to release the prisoners, your logic doesn't follow.

What threat do you imagine poses more of a risk for Walder Frey: The threat from the Lannisters if he ignores the order for the time being, or the immediate threat he faces from the houses whose prisoners he has just released?

Put another way: What happens if he ignores the order? What happens if he releases the prisoners and the many houses whose prisoners he has released attack the Twins? Do the Lannisters come in either instance?

[Oakenfist]

Greatjon will break out and strangle Walder Frey's little weasel neck.

[Fire Eater]

Even assuming that Cersei Lannister is aware of the order to release the prisoners, your logic doesn't follow.

What threat do you imagine poses more of a risk for Walder Frey: The threat from the Lannisters if he ignores the order for the time being, or the immediate threat he faces from the houses whose prisoners he has just released?

Put another way: What happens if he ignores the order? What happens if he releases the prisoners and the many houses whose prisoners he has released attack the Twins? Do the Lannisters come in either instance?

He knows not to cross the Lannisters given their reputation, not sending the hostages would be tantamount to declaring he doesn't trust them or that he thinks they won't keep the IT and the Lannister force is still in the riverlands. The Freys have enough enemies already. The other houses won't move against him yet since the Lannisters are still in power with their forces in the riverlands and Bracken having fought for them.

[Grip]

Have to wonder what kind of state the Greatjon and the other prisoners will be in if they are freed. I mean after spending that long a time in the Frey dungeons it will probably take some time before they are fit for action again.

[Faint]

He knows not to cross the Lannisters given their reputation, not sending the hostages would be tantamount to declaring he doesn't trust them or that he thinks they won't keep the IT and the Lannister force is still in the riverlands. The Freys have enough enemies already. The other houses won't move against him yet since the Lannisters are still in power with their forces in the riverlands and Bracken having fought for them.

Taking your points in order: The reputation you refer to is that of Tywin Lannister, not his daughter, who is the present head of House Lannister; the Lannister force in the Riverlands is actually smaller that the one the Freys field, even though the latter sent half their men North; the other houses won't move against the Freys as much because of hostages as anything else.

But the bigger point you are not addressing is that the Lannisters are in no position to do anything to the Freys due to current circumstances in King's Landing and elsewhere.

I am not dismissing the possibility that the Freys might have gone ahead and carried out the order anyway, largely because it might have come at the perfect time (i.e., before Jaime went missing, before Aegon landed, before news of Cersei's arrest spread, etc.). But it is by no means as simple as you make it seem.

[mindchap]

I'd love to see the Crannogmen deal with the Freys. I don't think UnCat will get that far and they seem to be the one group everybody is overlooking. Howland slipped by the twins to go to The Gods Eye so maybe we get a river of moss colored eyes creeping up on The Twins in the dark. They free GJ and he goes Bruce Banner on the rest of the Freys.

[Fire Eater]

But the bigger point you are not addressing is that the Lannisters are in no position to do anything to the Freys due to current circumstances in King's Landing and elsewhere.

The Lannisters still have a force in the riverlands.

[mindchap]

The Lannisters still have a force in the riverlands.

But they've lost Jamie. I'm sure they'll be more consumed with finding him than anything else.

[sertravisredbeard]

Without Jaime himself showing up to insist, I doubt it. They won't want to give the hostages unless they absolutely have to. If anyone gets onto them about it, they'll use the excuse that they didn't want to release the hostages until a suitable, trustable escort is there to take them. They're probably counting on Jaime and his host to swing by at some point, then be like "Here ya go, just being careful."

Then Jaime can goldhand-bitchslap them some more.