Continued Stannis Character Assasination [Book and TV Spoilers]

[Nezzer]

I often wonder how many Stannis fans who hate the portrayal in the show loved him from the get-go in the books. The arc for Stannis is going pretty much exactly how I expected it. I'm not denying TV!Stannis is a lot less complex than book!Stannis but nearly all the characters suffe that fate.

And also can someone point me to the chapters where his interactions with Melisandre when Davos is not around in ASOS are shown? I've read the Dragonstone chapters several times but I must have missed those.

Yeah, I only really started to like him after he saved the Wall. Before that he was okay, but he kinda bored me a bit, especially in the first half of ASoS. By ADwD he'd become my top favorite character in the entire saga.

[RottenAppleFossoway]

Yeah, I only really started to like him after he saved the Wall. Before that he was okay, but he kinda bored me a bit, especially in the first half of ASoS. By ADwD he'd become my top favorite character in the entire saga.

That's pretty much how I feel about him as well. His interaction with the new lord commander are some of the best dialogue in the entire series to me.

[Toxspecific]

In the start of the series, I was a Robb fan and supported him over Stannis until he bitterly disappointed me as a leader, but I found Stannis interesting and sort of like a badass warlord. That was it. Now, the guy's much more to me as a character.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

With an I believe out of character lack of strategic acumen he went straight for the throat at KL without anyone to back him up.

It was a mistake as it left him open to attack from behind, and that's what happened.

Yeah, that's kind of obvious. Given that Tyrion was bottled up inside KL, and there supposedly weren't any significant Lannister forces in the area, a halfway prudent commander would have landed some mounted scouts. It's not really a case of surprise because everyone knew Stannis was coming anyway.

Similar glitches with Tywin's attempt to cross the Red Fork. No experienced commander in his right mind would push equally at ten different river crossings. Perhaps a feint or two, but then you'd concentrate at one and just push.

I don't think those are deliberate characterizations of a lack of tactical acumen, though. GRRM isn't a soldier, and can't be expected to write as if he'd spend a major part of his life thinkign tactically. Stannis not having any scouts out or read defense was simply necessary for the plot, not a deliberate attempt to show him screwing up. IMHO.

[Stannis' shadow babies]

That scene was perfect in my eyes. Stannis was playing devil's advocate, talking like that to Davos so his counselor could counterargument. I also saw some sort of real disgust when he talked about Renly, that sort of smile read self contempt to me.

I'm biased, of course, but I think there's a reason why Stannis is seen with admiration and/or respect by the few people who may be considered 'good' in this story: Davos, Ned, Jon. That's got to count for something.

I admit I wasn't very happy with TV Stannis at the beginning, but now I'm liking the way they're unfilding his story. In fact, I think they're paving the way for a big redemption. Just wait and see what happens when Dany begins her trail of destruction and ineptitude and there's only one man who seem to be doing the right thing. I think many people, non book readers especially, will have a change of heart.

And I don't know why I read these threads either :bang:

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

It is unfortunate that they skipped the whole scene where Stannis refuses to attack the Claw, and ends up calling the whole idea "evil". That would have shown more of the positive side of his character. Stil, the scene where Davis tells Stannis that the only reason Stannis came down was because he already knew it was wrong to kill Gendry served the purpose.

I think they may skip Davos defying Stannis, and just have him convince Stannis that the idea is wrong. But who knows.

[WinterWarrior]

Actually I like the Stannis character in the books and love Davos. I think the scene between Stannis and Davos in the dungeon was one of the best of that episode. Yes, he calls on Davos to balance him and to give him reality checks. Stannis will not kill Gendry.

I was taken by Davos telling Stannis that Gendry is his "blood" and his "nephew", talking about him as if he was a true Baratheon.....pretty heady stuff to call a bastard child of Stannis' brother with a tavern wench that just came on the scene. It makes me wonder if my suspicion that Gendry will be the only Baratheon left in the end might be right on. House Baratheon may survive only through Gendry.

And I am sure Davos will spirit Gendry away as he did with Edric Storm in the books. Hmmm....I wonder if he will run into Arya wherever he goes.....

[Nezzer]

And I am sure Davos will spirit Gendry away as he did with Edric Storm in the books. Hmmm....I wonder if he will run into Arya wherever he goes.....

I'm starting to think it will be Stannis himself that will send Gendry away instead of Davos, probably after being persuaded by Davos. In the synopsis for episode 10 it says "in Dragonstone, mercy comes from strange quarters" and Stannis is known by all the other characters for being utterly without mercy. That might make Stannis much more sympathetic. I don't want to see him threatening to kill Davos like in the books. The sooner he becomes likeable, the better ^_^

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I'm starting to think it will be Stannis himself that will send Gendry away instead of Davos, probably after being persuaded by Davos. In the synopsis for episode 10 it says "in Dragonstone, mercy comes from strange quarters" and Stannis is known by all the other characters for being utterly without mercy. That might make Stannis much more sympathetic. I don't want to see him threatening to kill Davos like in the books. The sooner he becomes likeable, the better ^_^

Well, Davos was in prison for almost the whole season and while he advices the King, he doesn't take the decisions but Stannis. So, he would fit the "stranger" character. If he actually smuggles him out, then that would be even a more strange way to give mercy without actually being the King.

[ServantOnIce]

I am a member of Team Stannis and thought he was too rigid in the books. "I want to be king, because I am supposed to be the king, that's the way it is."

He was too stubborn until the Wall Thing happened and ADWD then I realized, there is goodness in King Stannis.

[Toxspecific]

He was certainly somewhat too pissed off and stubborn pre-Blackwater, but unlike a common perception, he didn't fight the battle badly; remember that he would've won it if not for Tywin bringing in a last minute miracle.

After that he became more flexible in matters where he did not need to contradict his principles and developed as a leader; something neither Robb, Joffrey, Balon and Dany did not do.

I don't necessarily desire for him to become King at all costs; if in any way it lessens the quality of the series then I sure as hell don't want him to become King and this is the difference I find between myself and other StanStans and other fandoms; we don't put the character above the series. At least I don't. And I find this indirectly making me think he's more awesome.

I saw a signature in some user's post, something about the realm needing Stannis as a protector but not a King; like a 'Dark Horse' as the sig said. Sounded cool and I agree with about half of it.

[Runaway Penguin]

Well, Davos was in prison for almost the whole season and while he advices the King, he doesn't take the decisions but Stannis. So, he would fit the "stranger" character. If he actually smuggles him out, then that would be even a more strange way to give mercy without actually being the King.

I think this refers not to Gendry's spiriting away as much as it does to Mel and Stannis hearing Davos out instead of chopping his head off.

I think it is crucial for the character dev of all three to have Mel say the "You are not a friend of me, but you are a friend of the king". bit.

[Conchobar]

I didn't see any sign of character assassination. Didn't you pay attention to the end of his conversation with Davos. He went to see Davos because he knew what Davos was going to say and that part of himself was disagreeing with Melisandre. It's very clear he is conflicted.

Edit: :ninja: 'd

Your avatar is amazing! Where did you get that?? lol

[Pinkie Baelish]

I saw a signature in some user's post, something about the realm needing Stannis as a protector but not a King; like a 'Dark Horse' as the sig said. Sounded cool and I agree with about half of it.

Heh, was it mine by any chance? If so, it's a quote from The Dark Knight which I thought fits well with Stannis, since it's pretty obvious he's Westeros' Batman.

[Master Forel's Fro]

Heh, was it mine by any chance? If so, it's a quote from The Dark Knight which I thought fits well with Stannis, since it's pretty obvious he's Westeros' Batman.

Pretty obvious to you maybe.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Pretty obvious to you maybe.

-sees his parents die at a young age

-spends his time holed up in high places

-always talks about justice

-has a loyal sidekick

-saves the realm

It's pretty good evidence, if you ask me.

[Arbor Gold I'm Sold]

Yea Stannis is just like Batman....Not! I missed the Batman that had sex with a fire priestess so he could birth a shadow demon to kill two people one being his brother. Stannis character has being simplified a bit like most everyone in the show. They have pretty much nailed it so far though. People don't like him. He's not a nice guy. He decides to kill Edric after the three kings death comes true. Stannis is in a horrible and desperate position. He feels it's his duty to rule the realm but noone likes him so they won't fight for him. He kills his brother with his bastard shadow demon and his armies surrender to fight for him. Stannis gets most of them killed because he doesn't know where the Lannister army is at. Davos saves Edric and ships him out, because being the person whom probably knows Stannis the best, he knows Edric is about to be given over to Mel by Stannis. So Stannis is left with no army and no crown. Davos convinces him that the only path is to be seen as a savior of the realm so he can win the northmen to his side. Only then does Stannis go to the wall. To get an army so he can take over the realm.

[Nezzer]

Your avatar is amazing! Where did you get that?? lol

Oh, this was a pic from the set. Found it here.

[Arbor Gold I'm Sold]

If Stannis is such a great guy why does he have Melisandre around? Why does he have sex with her? Why does he use that to birth a demon shadow baby to assasinate his brother? Why is he going to kill Edric Storm? Because he will do anything for power. If it will give him a weapon he will do it. No matter how heinous.

[Arbor Gold I'm Sold]

Stannis never thought of going to the wall and saving the realm. How many people did Stannis ever send to the wall from Dragonstone? He was a powerful lord surely there must be instances throughout the books of men of the Night's Watch from Dragonstone right? It took The Onion Knight to actually get through to Stannis that hey maybe you could actually do the right thing and maybe that will help your cause.