Tywin marries Sansa?

[Woman of War]

I think this is an inconsistency in the books: Why did Tywin never remarry and produce more heirs? He does not strike me as someone who would neglect the welfare of his house over mourning for his wife. He is for sure someone who can do what needs to be done in a marriage bed without unnecessary sentimentalities. He would have fucked Sansa without compunction and not bothered to reflect if she likes it or not.

But obviously Martin intended to link the story of Tyrion and Sansa. So I can only imagine that the impact of this marriage on the plot and the fate of the two characters concerned will be bigger than it seems at the moment where the two protagonists are on different continents. It would indeed have been more logical if Tywin had married Sansa himself. Though he may not have had the least little doubt that Tyrion the lusty cripple would produce the heir to Winterfell as soon as possible, bridegrooms of that world rarely had any compunctions to fuck their bride straightaway no matter what this bride thought about it. And Tywin expected that Tyrion could not wait to jump into Sansa's bed.

But in order to not only create the heir to Winterfell but more heirs to Lannister it would have been more logical if Tywin had married Sansa, kept her locked somewhere and done the necessary deed from time to time until there is a heir and some spares.

The author must have good reasons to choose the path he took, linking Sansa's and Tyrion's fate.

[SerBrightflame]

Another thing, didn't Tywin realise that dwarfism could be congenital? Why he he give one of his key pieces to Tyrion if all he made was another dwarf? I can just imagine a line of dwarfs ruling the Rock for another thousand years.

[Sansa_Stark]

But Tywin was a hypocrite. You saw how hard he pushed to get his children powerful marriage alliances.

And yet he married his cousin, a Lannister of Lannisport, which gave him little benefits in power.

[Minsc]

-snip-

Or because that would probably read as a traumatic rape sequence and he is smart enough to know that no one wants to read about Sansa being systematically raped multiple times by the planned murder of her family.

[mrunderhill]

I think this is an inconsistency in the books: Why did Tywin never remarry and produce more heirs? He does not strike me as someone who would neglect the welfare of his house over mourning for his wife. He is for sure someone who can do what needs to be done in a marriage bed without unnecessary sentimetalities. He would have fucked Sansa without compunction and not bothered to reflect if she likes it or not.

But obviously Martin intended to link the story of Tyrion and Sansa. So I can only imagine that the impact of this marriage on the plot and the fate of the two characters concerned will be bigger than it seems at the moment where the two protagonists are on different continents. It would indeed have been more logical if Tywin had married Sansa himself. Though he may not have had the least little doubt that Tyrion the lusty cripple would produce the heir to Winterfell as soon as possible, bridegrooms of that world rarely had any compunctions to fuck their bride straightaway no matter what this bride thought about it. And Tywin expected that Tyrion could not wait to jump into Sansa's bed.

But in order to not only create the heir to Winterfell but more heirs to Lannister it would have been more logical if Tywin had married Sansa, kept her locked somewhere and done the necessary deed from time to time until there is a heir and some spares.

The author must have good reasons to choose the path he took, linking Sansa's and Tyrion's fate.

Again what makes you think that Tywin is not the type neglect things over mourning? He truly loved and respected Joanna. She was his right hand and someone he shared everything with. Marrying her was one of the few times he has smiled. Kevan outright says one of the reasons Tyrion was being spared at the trial was his relationship to Joanna.

Tywin for me seems to be based on Edward I. A hard man, but who seemed to have been a great romantic and had great love for his wives.

[Lord Freypie]

Or because that would probably read as a traumatic rape sequence and he is smart enough to know that no one wants to read about Sansa being systematically raped multiple times by the planned murder of her family.

He could have made her flee just before her wedding.

Anyway he didn't, and it's probably because he wanted Sansa not marriable without an annulation.

Not sure if it foreshadow that Tyrion-Sansa link will be important in the end, both Tyrion and Sansa don't think about each other a lot, seems the marriage is more important than who is married with Sansa so far.

[Woman of War]

Or because that would probably read as a traumatic rape sequence and he is smart enough to know that no one wants to read about Sansa being systematically raped multiple times by the planned murder of her family.

Who finds delight in reading about what happened to Jeyne Poole??

I do not think that Martin has ANY compunctions in delivering cruelties to us readers if they are necessary for the story. We read wht happened to Pia, to Jeyne Poole, to Theon, to Lady Hornwood. Then why not Sansa? Because marrying her to Tywin would not have served the plot Martin intended. No, the author would have given us what happened to Sansa in case Tywin had married her, it could hardly have been worse than what happened to Jeyne.

[Mladen]

Tywin was in love with Joanna, and Martin wants us to remember that. Why? I don`t know yet, but I imagine it has something to do with Tyrion surviving the childhood. Tywin loved her and between Joanna and Sansa, there is a huge 23 years. So, I don`t understand how would anyone think that Tywin should have married Sansa when he was obviously reluctant marrying anyone as for that matter.

[Minsc]

Who finds delight in reading about what happened to Jeyne Poole??

I do not think that Martin has ANY compunctions in delivering cruelties to us readers if they are necessary for the story. We read wht happened to Pia, to Jeyne Poole, to Theon, to Lady Hornwood. Then why not Sansa? Because marrying her to Tywin would not have served the plot Martin intended. No, the author would have given us what happened to Sansa in case Tywin had married her, it could hardly have been worse than what happened to Jeyne.

Because, Sansa is a POV character while Jeyne Poole, Pia, and Lady Hornwood are not thus reading about her traumatic response to her rapes would be worse as we would be inside her head. Additionally, we don't actually witness the events of his tortures happening to Theon and he isn't an innocent abused 12 year old (through that doesn't make his treatment any less horrific).

Simply, it wouldn't be needed and it would be something particularly uncomfortable to read about that it alongside the RW might have turned a number of people completely off the books.

[Mladen]

Because, Sansa is a POV character while Jeyne Poole, Pia, and Lady Hornwood are not thus reading about her traumatic response to her rapes would be worse as we would be inside her head. Additionally, we don't actually witness the events of his tortures happening to Theon and he isn't an innocent abused 12 year old (through that doesn't make his treatment any less horrific).

Simply, it wouldn't be needed and it would be something particularly uncomfortable to read about that it alongside the RW might have turned a number of people completely off the books.

It wouldn`t be just uncomfortable reading, it would even worse writing it. Remember when GRRM stated that writing RW was really exhausting and painful. Just imagine what would it be if he had to write a POV of raped girl? It would be horrific for him. And more than that, it would be extremly difficult to hit the right cord with it. Writing about rapes that happened out there to someone else is easier than writing a POV of raped girl.

And again, it would be too big deviation for Tywin`s character to have married Sansa, after being alone for so long.

[daario's man]

The thought maybe crosses his mind but it's like what Roose says about old farthers and young lords. He wasn't about to die but he probably didn't think he would live much over a decade longer so even if he had gotten Sansa pregnant immediately, there would have been a young inexperienced lord in charge of Winterfel with no strong Southron backing.

Also if Tyrion marries Sansa he probably can't inherit the Rock.

[Woman of War]

It wouldn`t be just uncomfortable reading, it would even worse writing it. Remember when GRRM stated that writing RW was really exhausting and painful. Just imagine what would it be if he had to write a POV of raped girl? It would be horrific for him. And more than that, it would be extremly difficult to hit the right cord with it. Writing about rapes that happened out there to someone else is easier than writing a POV of raped girl.

And again, it would be too big deviation for Tywin`s character to have married Sansa, after being alone for so long.

Martin was in Dany's head via POV when Dany was thirteen and got married to Drogo. And there would be no reasons to make the readers actually witness the rape, he could do the same literary trick he did with Theon, imagined cruelties can be more powerful than the actual description.

No I stiil think Sansa had to marry Tyrion for plot reasons Martin has yet to unveil to us.

[Minsc]

Martin was in Dany's head via POV when Dany was thirteen and got married to Drogo.

No I stiil think Sansa had to marry Tyrion for plot reasons Martin has yet to unveil to us.

Doesn't George actually consider that a love story (which is all levels of fucked up)? Thus, unless we are expecting that he would have written Sansa falling for Tywin I don't think it would be the same.

He probably wanted her married to someone yes, and he probably picked someone we know/care about because he can then better explore it thus why we have Tyrion be it rather then Lancel.

[Mladen]

Martin was in Dany's head via POV when Dany was thirteen and got married to Drogo. And there would be no reasons to make the readers actually witness the rape, he could do the same literary trick he did with Theon, imagined cruelties can be more powerful than the actual description.

No I stiil think Sansa had to marry Tyrion for plot reasons Martin has yet to unveil to us.

Doesn't George actually consider that a love story (which is all levels of fucked up)? Thus, unless we are expecting that he would have written Sansa falling for Tywin I don't think it would be the same.

He probably wanted her married to someone yes, and he probably picked someone we know/care about because he can then better explore it thus why we have Tyrion be it rather then Lancel.

As Minsc just told, Martin transformed it into love story and basically made of something we would call rape, love making. It`s difficult to compare these stories because Dany opened her heart to Drogo and Sansa is so closed to Tyrion, and never let him in. As for plot reasons, I imagine it`s true, but I don`t see they are not unveiled. Sansa`s marriage led to Robb`s will, and that led to Jon being an heir of Kingdom.

[Woman of War]

As Minsc just told, Martin transformed it into love story and basically made of something we would call rape, love making. It`s difficult to compare these stories because Dany opened her heart to Drogo and Sansa is so closed to Tyrion, and never let him in. As for plot reasons, I imagine it`s true, but I don`t see they are not unveiled. Sansa`s marriage led to Robb`s will, and that led to Jon being an heir of Kingdom.

umm, the scenario we are just considering is not with Tyrion, it is with Tywin, so if Sansa had been forced to marry Tywin Tyrion's and her relationship would never have been of big importance. And Sansa would never be Robb's heir, with or without will since we know that Bran and Rickon are still alive, only Robb didn't. Whether the heir of Robb will be Lord of Winterfell or King in the North, it will for sure not be Sansa. I am totally convinced that Rickon is in the story for one purpose: to be Lord of Winterfell, I fear Bran won't be and Jon may have another fate.

And I would never give any prognostics about the emotions of characters several years from where the story is now. Martin will write whatever he wants, he is the wizard in his realm who can make everything come true. I only see hints that an event where the author had to explicitely give a twist to the story for them to happen cannot be unimportant.

[Minsc]

umm, the scenario we are just considering is not with Tyrion, it is with Tywin, so if Sansa had been forced to marry Tywin Tyrion's and her relationship would never have been of big importance. And Sansa would never be Robb's heir, with or without will since we know that Bran and Rickon are still alive, only Robb didn't. Whether the heir of Robb will be Lord of Winterfell or King in the North, it will for sure not be Sansa. I am totally convinced that Rickon is in the story for one purpose: to be Lord of Winterfell, I fear Bran won't be and Jon may have another fate.

And I would never give any prognostics about the emotions of characters several years from where the story is now. Martin will write whatever he wants, he is the wizard in his realm who can make everything come true. I only see hints that an event where the author had to explicitely give a twist to the story for them to happen cannot be unimportant.

I am guessing he meant Tywin in how Sansa would likely not warm up to him either, moreover the issue is he likely needed Jon to be legitimized and for that Sansa had to be disinherited which a marriage to a Lannister brought about.

[Lady Nastja]

True, it wouldn't have happened. Yet its still a very intriguing idea, albeit perhaps not a good one for Sansa.

[Woman of War]

But for the plot Sansa being disinherited was unimportant since we know that she simply never was heir, only Robb and Catelyn thought otherwise. Tywin did not know but he had drawn a blank in the lotery with Sansa and her claim, as would have the Tyrells. But it was important for Sansa's story to be seen as heir.

[Mladen]

umm, the scenario we are just considering is not with Tyrion, it is with Tywin, so if Sansa had been forced to marry Tywin Tyrion's and her relationship would never have been of big importance. And Sansa would never be Robb's heir, with or without will since we know that Bran and Rickon are still alive, only Robb didn't. Whether the heir of Robb will be Lord of Winterfell or King in the North, it will for sure not be Sansa. I am totally convinced that Rickon is in the story for one purpose: to be Lord of Winterfell, I fear Bran won't be and Jon may have another fate.

And I would never give any prognostics about the emotions of characters several years from where the story is now. Martin will write whatever he wants, he is the wizard in his realm who can make everything come true. I only see hints that an event where the author had to explicitely give a twist to the story for them to happen cannot be unimportant.

And their relationship is of some big importance? Their marriage is, but what happens between 2 of them isn`t so much. Sansa was Robb`s heir, since Rickon and Bran was considered dead by everyone, so marrying to Lannister instigated Robb to write a will proclaiming Jon as heir.

But for the plot Sansa being disinherited was unimportant since we know that she simply never was heir, only Robb and Catelyn thought otherwise. Tywin did not know but he had drawn a blank in the lotery with Sansa and her claim, as would have the Tyrells. But it was important for Sansa's story to be seen as heir.

And that`s all GRRM needed. Robb to think so, because that`s why he was legitimizing Jon(most likely).

[jons nissa]

But for the plot Sansa being disinherited was unimportant since we know that she simply never was heir, only Robb and Catelyn thought otherwise. Tywin did not know but he had drawn a blank in the lotery with Sansa and her claim, as would have the Tyrells. But it was important for Sansa's story to be seen as heir.

your post states it's unimportant for sansa to be disinherited and then it's important for sansa to be seen as heir. i am assuming (please correct me if i'm wrong here) that what you mean is it's more important for sansa to be considered the heir of winterfell than to be disinherited.

i sort of agree with this. sansa having no rights to winterfell makes an enormous difference and is crucial in a world where a woman's dowry was the whole reason for marriage. so had everyone had known about robb's will, sansa's story would have been completely different. tywin wouldn't have wanted her for himself or tyrion, the tyrells wouldn't have wanted her and her value to littlefinger would be completely different.

so it isn't that whether sansa is in succession or not doesn't matter since the stark boys are still alive. it's that the lack of awareness of sansa's disinheritance gives credibility to the fight for sansa's hand in marriage.

as for the op, i also wondered why tywin didn't marry her. i think it's because ultimately he believed he had a duty to his son to marry him in a way that would further lannister power coupled with the simple fact that he would rather be ruling in king's landing than ruling the north. by giving sansa to tyrion, he does his fatherly duty, secures the north and maintains his own presence and power in king's landing. a tri facta which is just the way tywin has been shown to think and plan.