Superior Strength: Dany and her Dragons

[Frey Pentos]

Actually, since Ned died in 298AL, dragons were born thar year, and we are still somewhere in the iddle of 300AL, so dragons are closer to being 2 years old than 3, if that.

1. I am talking about numbers, not their viciousness. 8000 isn`t enough.

2. Barristan will inspire loyalty, but with Faith against Dany and all the lords, I doubt that would help much

3. I was jumping ahead. Nevertheless, not enough

4. Even then, Paxter Redwyne has the biggest fleet in the World. Beside 200 war ships, he has almost 2000 ships, that can be remodeled and arranged for battle

5. As for Maesters, I wouldn`t be so certain that it`s just about poisoning dragons. We already know they are preparing tor action behind closed doors, so I wouldn`t discard them so easily. We also known dragons can be killed, so let not just toss that idea.

All in all, Dany hasn`t some great superiority over others, especially if Aegon unites with Dorne and disloyal to Tyrells, Reach lords like Redwynes and Hightowers. He might gain Stormlands and Crownlands. And he`ll be most likely seen by Westerosi commoners as sign of Gods to repair the things lions, stags and wolves made.

Don't you think Dorne and the Golden Company may dessert Faegon when they see the Dragons and realise they have backed the wrong Targ?

[Mladen]

Don't you think Dorne and the Golden Company may dessert Faegon when they see the Dragons and realise they have backed the wrong Targ?

Why would they? Dorne is the only Kingdom of 7 that actually fought successfully against dragons. That said, fully grown beasts of Aegon the Conqueror and his sisters. Dorne was never conquered. As for GC, they know about dragons, and they were paid to be on Aegon`s side. Further more, they are known for not breaking the contract, and that`s why many of us believe they are with Aegon.

[Djinn]

Didnt Serwyn of the mirror shield killed a dragon?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Wrong! Dany has a dragon dream of her on a dragon killing Others on the trident.

Because a metaphorical dream is totally literal, right? In that case, Jon dreamt of himself fighting with a burning sword, so he must be AA and we can pack it up and go home. :rolleyes:

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Didnt Serwyn of the mirror shield killed a dragon?

The guy lived 1,000 years before Targaryens came to Westeros.

[Precursor]

Actually, since Ned died in 298AL, dragons were born thar year, and we are still somewhere in the iddle of 300AL, so dragons are closer to being 2 years old than 3, if that.

1. I am talking about numbers, not their viciousness. 8000 isn`t enough.

2. Barristan will inspire loyalty, but with Faith against Dany and all the lords, I doubt that would help much

3. I was jumping ahead. Nevertheless, not enough

4. Even then, Paxter Redwyne has the biggest fleet in the World. Beside 200 war ships, he has almost 2000 ships, that can be remodeled and arranged for battle

5. As for Maesters, I wouldn`t be so certain that it`s just about poisoning dragons. We already know they are preparing tor action behind closed doors, so I wouldn`t discard them so easily. We also known dragons can be killed, so let not just toss that idea.

All in all, Dany hasn`t some great superiority over others, especially if Aegon unites with Dorne and disloyal to Tyrells, Reach lords like Redwynes and Hightowers. He might gain Stormlands and Crownlands. And he`ll be most likely seen by Westerosi commoners as sign of Gods to repair the things lions, stags and wolves made.

1. Actually I'd argue their lack of raping and pillaging is a major asset to Dany. Your right 8k is unlikely enough to win the battle, and I'm also in agreement that Unsullied wouldn't be great against Westerosi armies, but Dany doesn't need the Unsullied to win any battles. She simply needs them to force a battle, once the enemy masses their troops. Dragons can be used to eliminate them from the air as they were in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Kosovo (one example I'm aware of and the communication between Kosovar forces and NATO has been debated IIRC). After that the not raping and pillaging thing should help Dany provide some good governance and try and attempt to develop some performance legitimacy. Her main problem would be dealing with asymmetrical responses, but given Westeros has local nobles who would likely be willing and able to replace High Lord who oppose Dany I don't see why she couldn't simply empower them, and eliminate the old guard. Buying off new supporters with power and greater lands isn't a bad deal.

2. I would be shocked if no lord supported Dany. The girl has dragons, a Targaryen name (who happened to elevate a few houses last time they went on a "Invade and Burn it with Fire" kick) so I don't see why some power-hungry houses might decide to through their weight behind her in exchange for a promotion after casting down their Lord Paramounts. Oh and you still have the entire Vale which has been pretty much untouched by the war and is controlled by Littlefinger, wouldn't say you can guarantee he won't back Dany.

4. The size of his fleet will vary on when Dany invades, and where she invades. If she hits Skagos for some god forsaken reason then I don't think he'd be in a great position to stop her. Also Dragons are once again effective against Wooden ships. Mass your 2000 ship fleet and watch it burn as Dany's fleet runs away.

Seriously massing anything against Dragons is foolhardy, so I really don't think numbers matter that much.

5. Yes Dragons can be killed, and clearly I would be relying on them quite a lot. However, have their been combat deaths of dragons caused by AA? I know many did in the Dance of Dragons, but AFAIK most of those would likely have been dragon-dragon kills.The Valyarians used them successfully for many wars, although I don't know enough about the Empire to state whether losses were incurred (certainly they could have absorbed them).

[Mladen]

1. Actually I'd argue their lack of raping and pillaging is a major asset to Dany. Your right 8k is unlikely enough to win the battle, and I'm also in agreement that Unsullied wouldn't be great against Westerosi armies, but Dany doesn't need the Unsullied to win any battles. She simply needs them to force a battle, once the enemy masses their troops. Dragons can be used to eliminate them from the air as they were in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Kosovo (one example I'm aware of and the communication between Kosovar forces and NATO has been debated IIRC). After that the not raping and pillaging thing should help Dany provide some good governance and try and attempt to develop some performance legitimacy. Her main problem would be dealing with asymmetrical responses, but given Westeros has local nobles who would likely be willing and able to replace High Lord who oppose Dany I don't see why she couldn't simply empower them, and eliminate the old guard. Buying off new supporters with power and greater lands isn't a bad deal.

As much as we are talking not pillaging to be a major asset, they would do what Dany commands. And then who can guarantee us that she would spare any city that rejects her as a Queen. You are counting too much on Dany`s stability when she basically showed none. As for two fronts of battle, it all depends who is opponent. Dragons proved useless against Dornish, and even great force against guerilla warfare is quite inefficient. Dany doesn`t have it all. Yes, she can find some loirdling ready to oppose Great House, but it then all resolves to question will Danu have enough political wit to do that way. And she proved otherwise.

As for Kosovo, quick note, I was always amazed how NATO`s not-negotiating with terrorists doesn`t apply outside their countries.

2. I would be shocked if no lord supported Dany. The girl has dragons, a Targaryen name (who happened to elevate a few houses last time they went on a "Invade and Burn it with Fire" kick) so I don't see why some power-hungry houses might decide to through their weight behind her in exchange for a promotion after casting down their Lord Paramounts. Oh and you still have the entire Vale which has been pretty much untouched by the war and is controlled by Littlefinger, wouldn't say you can guarantee he won't back Dany.

Perhaps, soeme will. I would like to hear which one. With Faith against her, Aegon gathering forces, North doesn`t want to meddle in Southern affairs, Riverlands in chaos, Dorne on Aegon`s side, I mean she wouldn`t havgreat support. Yes, there is a Vake, but she considers them `Usurper`s dogs`, remember? Then there is LF, who will clash with Sansa and other Vale lords, and I doubt he will be able to get out of that conundrum alive, Dany might have to deal with Sansa, another descedent of Usurper`s dogs. Also, Sansa would prefer to aid her brothers than Dany, and Dany at last, brings chaos to Westeros. Aegon will be seen as Peacemaker and Unifier, while Dany with dragons would bring death, and new war. That`s why she will have a lot of troubles convincing people to stand with her.

4. The size of his fleet will vary on when Dany invades, and where she invades. If she hits Skagos for some god forsaken reason then I don't think he'd be in a great position to stop her. Also Dragons are once again effective against Wooden ships. Mass your 2000 ship fleet and watch it burn as Dany's fleet runs away.

Yes, there are dragons. But, let we say she goes to Skagos. With winter, as we know, dragons gets weaker and easier to kill. Also, there is a great chance, dragons can be killed by weirwood arrows, so I dount she would get anywhere near North.

5. Yes Dragons can be killed, and clearly I would be relying on them quite a lot. However, have their been combat deaths of dragons caused by AA? I know many did in the Dance of Dragons, but AFAIK most of those would likely have been dragon-dragon kills.The Valyarians used them successfully for many wars, although I don't know enough about the Empire to state whether losses were incurred (certainly they could have absorbed them).

Dragons are not omnipotent. Especially, since Dany`s dragons are not fully-grown and 2 of them are basically interupted in growing. Dany`s dragons for now are fragile beasts, dangerous in the future, possible powerful weapon, but do you remember Field of Fire, when Aegon`s dragons burnt not just enemy`s army than also his. Dany will have many problems with them, due to her ignorance, them being uncontrollable, and lastly, their size.

Putting all eggs in one basket is dangerous, and Dany will learn that... Dragons can be killed, by men too.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Just pointing out yet again that it doesn't do her a damn bit of good to leave Slaver's Bay with tens of thousands of fighters if half of them don't ever make it to Westeros. People judging her Westerosi strength based on the numbers she has in Slaver's Bay are (conveniently!) forgetting that she has to GET them there.

[Faint]

I think it a little early to judge the composition of Daenery's army when she arrives in Westeros. I suspect the slaves of Voltanis when they inevitably revolt will factor heavily into the equation. The fleet that Aurane Waters has hidden in the Stepstones also looks quite promising. There are still too many cards left to be dealt.

[Morienthar]

I think it a little early to judge the composition of Daenery's army when she arrives in Westeros. I suspect the slaves of Voltanis when they inevitably revolt will factor heavily into the equation. The fleet that Aurane Waters has hidden in the Stepstones also looks quite promising. There are still too many cards left to be dealt.

I don't think half starving slaves will do much for her armies,they'll just be more mouths to feed like her "Freedmen".

[Faint]

I don't think half starving slaves will do much for her armies,they'll just be more mouths to feed like her "Freedmen".

Oh, there are quite a few who would prove useful, like the Tiger Cloaks, many of who worship R'hllor. They will probably be among the first to turn on their owners.

[Northern Pride]

Dragons will rule Westeros. At least for book anyway. One dragon I imagine can scorch an entire army in the field in just a few passes. One dragon could take out large chunks of Redwynes fleet, especially if docked in a harbor in an afternoons work. Fires on ships at sea are never a good thing. We're talking Blackwater X's 1000 here.

If Dany can get Dorne that is a huge start for her ground forces. As many have mentioned she will have to compete with Aegon. Really don't know how that's going to work out but Im especially interested to see Dorans reaction to Aegon considering he sent his son to hook up with another Targ.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Dragons will rule Westeros. At least for book anyway. One dragon I imagine can scorch an entire army in the field in just a few passes. One dragon could take out large chunks of Redwynes fleet, especially if docked in a harbor in an afternoons work. Fires on ships at sea are never a good thing. We're talking Blackwater X's 1000 here.

If Dany can get Dorne that is a huge start for her ground forces. As many have mentioned she will have to compete with Aegon. Really don't know how that's going to work out but Im especially interested to see Dorans reaction to Aegon considering he sent his son to hook up with another Targ.

1. "Get Dorne" how?

2. You're right, Doran did send his son to "hook up" with another Targ. And that son is dead. So which Targ is he going to throw in with now? The one who's his nephew and who could be a marriage match to his daughter, or the one who spurned Quentyn and who, for all he knows, might be responsible for his death?

[lady m]

Don't you think Dorne and the Golden Company may dessert Faegon when they see the Dragons and realise they have backed the wrong Targ?

No, since the GC has never been on the side of Daeron Is line, I'm not sure why they would be now.

As for cyvasse and dragons, there are two times when Tyrion plays that a dragon is taken.

First, (ADWD p189) Haldon he brings out his dragon too early and it is taken by a trebuchet, that happens off screen in Tyrion's thoughts.

Tyrion playing in Volantis, (ADWD, p289) his dragon is taken out by a catapult.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

No, since the GC has never been on the side of Daeron Is line, I'm not sure why they would be now.

As for cyvasse and dragons, there are two times when Tyrion plays that a dragon is taken.

First, (ADWD p189) Haldon he brings out his dragon too early and it is taken by a trebuchet, that happens off screen in Tyrion's thoughts.

Tyrion playing in Volantis, (ADWD, p289) his dragon is taken out by a catapult.

Some fun things ...

1. The dragon that Tyrion loses to a trebuchet is female. He describes it as a her. Kind of interesting when we almost always see them referred to as "him" or "it."

2. The dragon he loses to the catapult is alabaster — white.

[Faint]

Speaking of the Golden Company, I've started to wonder what we are to make of Harry Strickland and how he will factor in future events. He is plainly useless and a coward to boot. The author seems to be making a point of highlighting his character for whatever reason.

[Morienthar]

Speaking of the Golden Company, I've started to wonder what we are to make of Harry Strickland and how he will factor in future events. He is plainly useless and a coward to boot. The author seems to be making a point of highlighting his character for whatever reason.

I believe he is either in line to die or betray.

[Faint]

I believe he is either in line to die or betray.

I was thinking the latter, but to who? The Tyrells? Apparently House Strickland is from the Reach.

[Morienthar]

I was thinking the latter, but to who? The Tyrells? Apparently House Strickland is from the Reach.

If promised his ancestral home and lands back,It's possible.

[Faint]

If promised his ancestral home and lands back,It's possible.

That's the danger inherent in the Golden Company. It would seem that many of its members could be bought off that way. Especially when you consider that they actually elected Harry Strickland as their leader. That does not speak well of the present state of the company as a whole.