Ice Turtle Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I couldn't for a moment believe that Golden Company would break their contact for a Targ of all people and maybe I should reread but I actually don't think that Tyrion believes that Aegon is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 And even if JonCon vouches for him... well, Margret of Burgundy vouched for Perkin Warbeck, and all the evidence is that she was knowingly lying.Actually Warbeck's confession of being an imposter doesn't entirely check out and considering that he convinced one emperor, two kings and one aunt of his legitimacy, he must have been much more believable than his confession would have allowed him to be. Warbeck might have been a fake but he was a such a good fake that no historian worth anything should ever argue that it is a certainty that he was a fake. Aegon whatever is he is, is in the same position. Regardless of wether he is the Westeros' analogue of Warbeck (failed rebellion, confession, death), Russia's False Dmitry (actually got the throne, made huge tactical mistakes and was killed before any possible confession) or Henry VII (shake-y claim, long reign) - I seriously doubt that we will ever know if he is the real deal within the books. Especially since the only who truly knows (and doesn't have to rely on someone else's testimony) is someone whose POV we will never know. (Varys) Even Illyrio might have been bamboozled by an additional baby-switch if Varys truly wanted a legit Targ on the throne after all.So actual honest question - if he is a fake how could we ever truly know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Woodpecker of West Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Especially when Aegon, real or fake, is prophecised to be slain by Daenerys anyway. Prophecy doesn't say she will kill him.After "slayer of lies" theme we have visions of Stannis, clothed dragon and rock beasts.It doesn't means that "clothed dragon" is Aegon, or that she would literally sly him.It's obvious for me that she would slay some lies considering this vision.Stannis being Azor Ahai. Beasts of Dragonstone being real dragons rising from rock, and clothed dragon.It could means that she will somehow reveal that Aegon isn't real Targaryen, but it could also mean that she will reveal he is not Azor Ahai, Prince that was Promised despite being Azor Ahai. Or she can reveal some darker plot of Varys, Illyrio and merling people, who knows ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatty Duelist Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 So actual honest question - if he is a fake how could we ever truly know? We never will i guess. It will forever remain ambiguous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanx5 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I always had feeling that he was fake, due to the baby swapping story just sounds BS. Like Varys has a baby double in his cupboard to use whenever he needs to replace a baby on the call. But I didn't know he may be a Blackfyre or the other theories, until I came on this site where you guys opened my mind about the entire series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 My big problem with the whole Aegon thing: 1. He knows that King's landing would be sacked, with enough prior knowledge to procure a look alike...2. But still he advised Aerys AGAINST opening the gates to Tywin.2. He swaps the baby before it gets killed, without anyone else noticing (somewhat plausible, as anyone who saw could have just been killed)3. The Aegon baby's corpse would be unrecognizable, so even post death, no one would notice. (Which implies he either knew the potential actions of, or was otherwise able to control "The Mountain" Clegane's actions) The story, in this regard, just doesn't seem to consistently add up to me. I believe the real Aegon to be legitimately dead, and this "Aegon" simply to be part of a Varys/Illyrio scheme to put a puppet king on the throne. That being said, this theory doesn't quite add up to me either, because of: The thing i don't understand about this, is the donation of priceless dragon's eggs.This was always incredibly strange to me, as well.. Illyrio seems to be genuinely investing in Viserys/Dany, despite also apparently being more or less unconcerned with their fates/ seemingly contradictorily also really betting on Aegon. I hope this part of the story gets more attention going forward, as it currently doesn't quite make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatty Duelist Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 My big problem with the whole Aegon thing: 1. He knows that King's landing would be sacked, with enough prior knowledge to procure a look alike... 2. But still he advised Aerys AGAINST opening the gates to Tywin. 2. He swaps the baby before it gets killed, without anyone else noticing (somewhat plausible, as anyone who saw could have just been killed) 3. The Aegon baby's corpse would be unrecognizable, so even post death, no one would notice. (Which implies he either knew the potential actions of, or was otherwise able to control "The Mountain" Clegane's actions) You've obviously never have been to the Aegon debates. All your points have been resolved there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainBow Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 You've obviously never have been to the Aegon debates. All your points have been resolved there. No, they haven't. Random people have simply given their personal interpretation on it. Only the ignorant claim them self to be right when Martin hasn't given us the answer yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I don't much care either way really. The boy is a plot device, as far as I can see, destined to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunners Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Hmm, the only difference between Aegon being "real" and "fake" would be that Varys planted an innocent kid to die in baby Aegon's place, so I'm not getting the implication that him being "real" is not gritty, not cruel, but is an happy ending. Especially when Aegon, real or fake, is prophecised to be slain by Daenerys anyway.Which part of what prophecies are you speaking of? In the house of the undying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpkinsAndStarks Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Yeah, I'm curious which prophecies you are referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Which part of what prophecies are you speaking of? In the house of the undying?Yeah, I'm curious which prophecies you are referring to.See: I was expecting a fake Aegon since the House of the Undyings, so I knew he was fake before he got introduced. Prophecy doesn't say she will kill him. After "slayer of lies" theme we have visions of Stannis, clothed dragon and rock beasts. It doesn't means that "clothed dragon" is Aegon, or that she would literally sly him.If you go that way, we don't have a vision of Stannis, we have a vision of a blue eyed king with a sunset sword, who casts no shadow. No, it is not 100% certain that she will slay Aegon, nor that the cloth dragon even is Aegon, but a fake Aegon ticked all the boxes even before he was introduced, and given the context, and precedents, a struggle for power has little chance to end well for both parties. How did Cersei put that? Ah yes "In the Game of Throne, you win or you die". Though of course, if she can prove she is the only real Azor Ahai, Targaryen and dragon saviour around, I suppose she does not have to do anything, the lies will have been slain... but really, is that what we expect of Daenerys: to show up and have all the opposition crumble spontaneously, especially Aegon who knows of her and her dragons and is almost assured to ask for the beasts once he secured a powerbase in Westeros? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunners Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 See:If you go that way, we don't have a vision of Stannis, we have a vision of a blue eyed king with a sunset sword, who casts no shadow.No, it is not 100% certain that she will slay Aegon, nor that the cloth dragon even is Aegon, but a fake Aegon ticked all the boxes even before he was introduced, and given the context, and precedents, a struggle for power has little chance to end well for both parties. How did Cersei put that? Ah yes "In the Game of Throne, you win or you die". Though of course, if she can prove she is the only real Azor Ahai, Targaryen and dragon saviour around, I suppose she does not have to do anything, the lies will have been slain... but really, is that what we expect of Daenerys: to show up and have all the opposition crumble spontaneously, especially Aegon who knows of her and her dragons and is almost assured to ask for the beasts once he secured a powerbase in Westeros?Help me understand. When the prophecy spoke of the "cloth dragon" are you saying that it might have meant he was a dragon in sigil only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Woodpecker of West Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 It can mean that he is no real Aegon but puppet created by Varys and Illyrio to "give heroes something to fight" so merling conspiracy can work in peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horizon Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Varys wants Aegon to bring stability to the realm.If it is discovered that Aegon is fake then stability will be.... swooosh... gone. Thus: who could prove Aegon is fake?The dragons? Hardly. Even Targ's can burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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