MasterJack Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Yes, if you blame other people for one's actionsI don't think she foresaw Brandon stupid moveThis isnt really stupid, your baby sister is kidnapped, king/prince or not, he is a bastard who deserves death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pootie Tang Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 If she went willingly with Rheagar then she is a selfish person and partially responsible for Brandon and Rickards death.As far as responsibility for RR goes:Aerys' Pyrophilia, > Aerys' Incompetence as a political Leader > Aerys' Madness > >Robert for rebelling > Jon Arryn for defying his king by not giving him the heads of Ned and Robert > Brandons Rage > Lyanna and Rhaegars elopement > Rickard Karstark demanding a trial by combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 The part of the blame that is 100% her fault is everyone who died at the ToJ. All good men, died cause some littlegirl in love never cared to tell her brother Ned she was never truly kidnapped.How could she do that? Screaming from her window while dying and the fight was taking place? lolI think she told him on her deathbed though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Brandon caused both his and his father's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 If she went willingly, then she is as to blame as Aerys, Rhaegar, Varys and Brandon for the war.We don't know how Rickard reacted to Aerys, he might have been to blame as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterJack Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 How could she do that? Screaming from her window while dying and the fight was taking place? lolI think she told him on her deathbed thoughShe was on her deathbed during all the freaking rebellion? please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 If she ran off with Rhaegar willingly without telling her father then she deserves a portion of the blame. It was an immature thing to do and could have easily led to a war, all be it on a smaller scale with her family and friends being crushed. However, the main culprit is Aerys for being a tyrant. He killed Jon Arryn's heir as well along with other powerful Lords for a pitiful reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 but if she went willingly then something must've be going on between themWe don't know if that's what moved him to run off with her. It's an assumption by fans, it was never stated it was one of his reasons or even less so his sole reason for doing it.A very dutiful and reasonable prince decides to cause an uproar by running off with a highborn lady just because he wanted a child for a prophecy. I don't buy thatWhether it was love or Rhaegar believed he was fullfilling the prophecy, he did cause an uproar. And the worst thing is he was most likely wrong about prophecy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pootie Tang Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 If she went willingly, then she is as to blame as Aerys, Rhaegar, Varys and Brandon for the war.She really isnt, two youngsters forbidden love is nowhere near as condemnable as Aerys' inability to handle the situation.We don't know how Rickard reacted to Aerys, he might have been to blame as well.We know that he demanded a trial by combat, which seems pretty lawful don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Robert's Warhammer Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Targs practiced polygamy, Rickard was a reasonable man, why not speak to him? Ned and John Arryn would have calmed down Robert once the betrothal had been broken. Rhaegar would have bloodlessly removed his father and everyone moves on.Boring ass book though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Targs practiced polygamy, Rickard was a reasonable man, why not speak to him? Ned and John Arryn would have calmed down Robert once the betrothal had been broken. Rhaegar would have bloodlessly removed his father and everyone moves on.As I keep saying, its not possible. I think the last Targ to practice polygamy was Maegor and he wasn't exactly the most popular guy around at the time. Rhaegar having 2 wives and children with each of them would've been a recipe for disaster. It would've been Dance of Dragons/Blackfyre Rebellion all over again. The Martells would not have agreed to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterJack Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I just hope she was really kidnapped by Rheagar for the sole purpose to have a Pure First Men wife for his third child. She would have been raped but at least not a vilain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 She really isnt, two youngsters forbidden love is nowhere near as condemnable as Aerys' inability to handle the situation.When the unity of several kingdoms lay on it, I think it is. What they did was 100% selfish.Aerys at least had the excuse of being severely mentally imbalanced and misinformed (possibly misled) by his Master of Whisperers.We know that he demanded a trial by combat, which seems pretty lawful don't you think?Agreed... I can't pronounce myself without a full description of the scene though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Lyanna(If she went willingly), Brandon, Rhaegar, and Aerys are all to blame imo. More so Aerys and Rhaegar than the other two. For a supposedly smart guy, Rhaegar should've known running off with a Lord Paramount's daughter would've caused trouble. He also knew his own father was unstable and bringing her to the TOJ rather then KL made things even worse. I'd give more blame to Lyanna if she was older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 She didn't seem very smart. She shunned Robert for not seeming ready to remain loyal to her bed and then runs off with a married man. WOMAN LOGIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pootie Tang Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 When the unity of several kingdoms lay on it, I think it is. What they did was 100% selfish.Only if we chose to subscribe to the morality behind the laws of the seven kingdoms. I am kind of making a love conquers all argument here. I think that two peoples love for each other are never condemnable, if anything is, it is the social constructs that create the laws that forbid women in Westeros to have a right to their own sexuality. The true tragedy is that the society is built in such a way so that love must be a subject to the common good.Aerys at least had the excuse of being severely mentally imbalanced and misinformed (possibly misled) by his Master of Whisperers.Varys cannot be blamed for Aerys' Pyrophelia. So if we are insisting on placing the blame elsewhere than squarey on Aerys' crowned head, it must either be placed on Westeros' form of government for being a hereditary monarchy, or on Rhaegar for not doing the responsible thing and De-crowning his father sooner. Very little blame should be placed on Lyanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 She didn't seem very smart. She shunned Robert for not seeming ready to remain loyal to her bed and then runs off with a married man. WOMAN LOGIC.He already had a bastard (and would have more for sure) and would not respect her at all as his wife.Apparently Rhaegar chose her onlyBut I don't think that was her only reason, but maybe she just didn't find Robert appealing with his tavern brute ways and ignorance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pootie Tang Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 She didn't seem very smart. She shunned Robert for not seeming ready to remain loyal to her bed and then runs off with a married man. WOMAN LOGIC.I think she shunned Robert because she loved Rhaegar more. So LOVE LOGIC if there is such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maia Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 She eloped with a married man without telling anyoneWho says that she didn't tell anyone? For that matter, who says that Brandon really thought that Lyanna was kidnapped? According to Jaime, Brandon wasn't asking after her well-being or demanding her return - he was only interested in killing Rhaegar. Which is more consistent with him knowing that Lyanna wasn't kidnapped and/or not caring about her other than as a family posession.And now that we know that Brandon may have been in the habit of deflowering noble maidens and making them false marriage promises himself, well... it throws a somewhat different light on his motivation too. I.e. he could have been informed about R&L's plan to make their relationship socially acceptable and disregarded it as lies akin to those he himself told Barbrey Ryswell and likelly Ashara Dayne too... or on Rhaegar for not doing the responsible thing and De-crowning his father sooner. Rhaegar tried to prepare a peaceful take-over at Harrenhal. Who, do you think, tipped of The ol' nutcase and prevented it? Speaking of Varys's share of responsibility.Prior to that, Tywin seemed able to keep Aerys mostly in check. It is only once he resigned, that situation quickly became critical - more quickly than anybody expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Littlefinger Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 With the mad king on the throne, it wouldn't have been long before a rebellion started.But for Roberts rebellion yes Lyanna was partly to blame, along with Rhaegar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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