Is Dawn actually Lightbringer? or maybe Brightroar?

[andrew_]

I just watched Elio and Linda briefly discuss the theory that Dawn is actually AA's famous sword. But for me, I think that its a possibility that the sword might be House Lannisters' long lost ancestral sword Brightroar. It was lost when King Tommen sailed back to Valyria and never returned. Dawn is also said to be as sharp as Valyrian steel. GRRM has definitely put that description in for a reason other than to describe how sharp it is. And to get to and from Valyria from Casterly Rock you first must sail around the coast of Dorne in which Starfall and the lands of House Dayne are near.

It's a pretty crackpot theory I know but it still could be true. Discuss.

[The guy from the Vale]

Dawn might be Lightbringer, although I don't think Lightbringer is a literal sword to begin with.

As for Brightroar, Valyrian Steel didn't exist during the Long Night, which happened millennia before Valyria became powerful. Hence, no, Brightroar is almost definitely out of the picture.

[yolkboy]

Well, one thing i'm sold on, is that Dawn=dragonsteel, which is the weapon of the last hero. That's all i can contribute.

[Mladen]

I am among those that believe Lighbronger is metaphorical, not literal sword. So, I don`t think Dawn is Lightbringer.

[Ser Greg of House House]

I think Dawn is the first Lightbringer. There's no proof, but it fits. It's a unique sword, no other known sword has its white blade. The name fits. House Dayne is a First Men house. The whole tradition of the Sword of the Morning etc.

Though I doubt it will be the "new" Lightbringer. I think now it's just a prettier Valyrian Steel sword. Perhaps it was created with similar magic by the First Men, and it was one of a kind for the First Men until Valyrians appeared.

I also think that Dragonsteel = Valyrian steel. Even if Jon is reborn the badass of badasses, one man fighting the undead army is unreal... I know there's obsidian, but still.

Also the way the book says "Dragonsteel" seems to imply it's a material of some kind. Why would they name it Dragonsteel and not the name of the sword if there was only one?

For me Dragonsteel = Valyrian steel.

It makes no sense for Dawn to be Brightroar.

IIRC Brightroar was lost after the doom, when King Tommen (II?) tried to sail to Valyria and never came back.

Also Starfall reference Dawn. I believe it's an ancient castle.

[yolkboy]

Dragonglass - made from cooled lava, lethal to Others, nothing to do with dragons

Dragonsteel - made from cooled meterorite, lethal to Others, nothing to do with dragons. DAWN!

[Morienthar]

The Nights Watch is the Lightbringer,It's pretty much in their oaths.

[yolkboy]

The Nights Watch is the Lightbringer,It's pretty much in their oaths.

Personally i think it might have metaphorical AND literal meaning. The legend of lightbringer seems like some kind of code to understanding Lightbringer as something literal. Mel's in there, i think.

[Leto]

The Nights Watch is the Lightbringer,It's pretty much in their oaths.

Words are wind and light bringer is ablaze..it doesn't make sense! :P

[The Dornishman's Wife]

Words are wind and light bringer is ablaze..it doesn't make sense! :P

"I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn"

Whether it's true or not, it does make sense.

[Leto]

"I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn"

Whether it's true or not, it does make sense.

it was a joke..

[andrew_]

Whether or not Dawn is Lightbringer, there is no doubt the Dawn is not your average sword, there has to be something special about it, and I think now that Balon Swann and Obara Sand are going after Darkstar, we will see it again because although he is only a member of a cadet branch of House Dayne, he is in my opinion going to wield it when they finally find him.

[naik2902]

bloodraven knows about darksister and its location. may be he will reveal it to bran.

[Ghost's Shadow]

"I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn"

Whether it's true or not, it does make sense.

Well, the wielder of Lightbringer was supposed to have 10,000 friends behind him when facing the Others.

I think the vow is as such because one person with a flaming sword won't win, but he needs help, and I don't think AA would claim the victory for himself, even if he was the only one with a flaming sword and the others had obsidian, so they'd all be a bit of him, a brotherhood.

If the Others come with swords, and no iron swords can put a dent in them (they laugh when they see a NW man holding one - it doesn't harm them), why can't there be 1 person with one that can engage into a fight with them? I mean, I don't think there's obsidian swords out there, just daggers, which to me would indicate you having to come *very* close to the Other when fighting it. I'd rather have a sword to keep them away from me a bit. :P

Now, if dragonsteel is Valyrian steel, there could be a few more, but it's not like all Westeros Valyrian steel swords/daggers/knives will go to the Wall, so there will be a few at best. Still not just 'one' person with a sword, but not too many others either.

[Dryhtscipe]

Dragonsteel - made from cooled meterorite, lethal to Others, nothing to do with dragons. DAWN!

'Tis worth noting the comet-dragon thang going on.

[Slackylc]

As for Brightroar, Valyrian Steel didn't exist during the Long Night, which happened millennia before Valyria became powerful. Hence, no, Brightroar is almost definitely out of the picture.

Brightroar was Valyrian steel. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Brightroar

[King of Winters]

I think Dawn is the original Lightbringer and is also Dragonsteel, as it's old enough to be both. So what I think is that this time the NW is Lightbringer and Jon will use both NW and Dawn to fight the Others, except NW will be his Lightbringer and he'll use Dawn as Dragonsteel to actually fight the Others.

[Squire to Ser Pounce]

Dawn is said to be "forged of metal from the heart of a fallen star."

Sure, it could be a meteorite of some sort.

But I can't shake the whole possible metal/mettle play on words. And "heart of a fallen star"? Could totally be reference to Nissa Nissa or some similar type of tragic sacrifice. So I join those that say Dawn is the first Lightbringer.

[mindchap]

The Nights Watch is the Lightbringer,It's pretty much in their oaths.

Couldn't they each be a Lightbringer? Perhaps Dawn is the actual sword used years ago that has been passed down ever since. And the NW is the modern incarnation of the idea of Dawn. The NW couldn't really have been the first Dawn as they were formed after the fact.

[J. Stargaryen]

Dawn is said to be "forged of metal from the heart of a fallen star."

Sure, it could be a meteorite of some sort.

But I can't shake the whole possible metal/mettle play on words. And "heart of a fallen star"? Could totally be reference to Nissa Nissa or some similar type of tragic sacrifice. So I join those that say Dawn is the first Lightbringer.

Based on an idea of Elio/Ran's, that Dayne incorporates the word "day," I was kicking around the idea that the same could be true for "star" and Stark. Much to my surprise, this idea actually fits really well with the star related prophecies. Let's take a look:

There will come a day after a long summer when the stars Starks bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him.

As per AGoT, Bran I, the longest summer in memory is ending:

The morning had dawned clear and cold, with a crispness that hinted at the end of summer.

So, after the long summer do the Starks bleed? Why yes they do, and quite literally, too. (With apologies to Ned and King Robb.)

When the red star Stark bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone.

But who is "the red Stark"? Jon Snow, of course. Jon is half Targaryen, – as well as half Stark – and Targaryens are strongly associated with the color red, so it would make sense to think of him as the red Stark in the same way that he is also thought to be the ice dragon.

I said all that to say this: you can quite plausibly apply this star/Stark idea to the creation of Dawn. And you know what, in that case it also ties in neatly with the Nissa Nissa sacrifice story.

“The finest knight I ever saw was Ser Arthur Dayne, who fought with a blade called Dawn, forged from the heart of a fallen star Stark.

“A hundred days and a hundred nights he labored on the third blade, and as it glowed white-hot in the sacred fires, he summoned his wife. ‘Nissa Nissa’ he said to her, for that was her name, ‘bare your breast, and know that I love you best of all that is in this world.’ She did this thing, why I cannot say, and Azor Ahai thrust the smoking sword through her living heart. It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel. Such is the tale of the forging of Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes.