Warging (Arya and Sansa

[Master Forel's Fro]

I read about the birds foreshadowing here on these forums. I don't know if she warged a bird or not, but it seems to be accepted that she may, in the future. I missed it though.

I missed this too, I thought sansa was the only non warg in the family. When did she warg something?

[Silverin]

I missed this too, I thought sansa was the only non warg in the family. When did she warg something?

She didn't, but GRRM did say that all the Stark kids are wargs. Sansa might won't do anything that huge as her siblings but it is in her.

[ARYa_Nym]

As said it's the opposite. Arya is the one who has been warging and like her brother Bran she has moved on to other animals. Both Arya and Bran use animals that Haggon (cats, birds) advised against for personal reasons.

She does know and uses it to her advantage (knowing the weather in Westeros in ADWD, using the cat to see).

Bran is more/the most likely for the dragon although Arya is the one most likely to see them in person. Bran actually had to try a few times in order to use the crows properly and he's the most powerful of the Stark kids.

[KOM]

Arya: are there degrees of warging? Arya's waking cat-warging seems to imply that she's only seeing out their eyes, but not totally controlling the cat. So, it could make sense that she can retain her ability to control herself.

Sansa: she hasn't warged yet, but, since her wolf is dead, and given all the bird symbolism in her pov's, many think that when she does warg, it will be a bird.

[ARYa_Nym]

Arya: are there degrees of warging? Arya's waking cat-warging seems to imply that she's only seeing out their eyes, but not totally controlling the cat. So, it could make sense that she can retain her ability to control herself.

There are.

Are all the Stark children wargs/skin changers with their wolves?

To a greater or lesser degree, yes, but the amount of control varies widely.

Yes I know that Lady is dead, but assuming they were all alive and all the children as well, would all the wolves have bonded to the kids as Bran and Summer did?Bran and Summer are somewhat of a special case.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Quite_a_Few_Questions

Haggon also said that cats are always ready to turn on you. They are difficult to control.

[Lehnaru]

I hope Littlefinger tries to do something horrible to Sansa and her fear and panic causes her to warg into him and somehow that results in his death (maybe he falls off a high ledge or smashes his head on the corner of a table?). That'd be wonderful.

As for Arya, I think her warging abilities will save her from losing her identity and ultimately cause her to leave Braavos with her identity and Starkiness intact.

[teratomatastic]

I think that Arya and Sansa skinchanging is far more metaphorical - being able to control their own identities rather than that of another entity entirely. Arya is in training to become a faceless man - where she will be able to put on another person's face and entirely become that person as easily as changing her clothes.

Sansa is interesting. I think she's become even more focused inward, and her skinchanging is building up this completely fabricated persona of who she needs to be in order to survive. Cersei even calls her "Little Dove".

[The Mother of The Others]

wrong thread

[conon394]

Personally I not reacalling any Sansa warging does anyone have quote handy outside of the GRRM saying they are all wargs? I think Arya's is subtle and decidedly different than the other examples, she seems almost a friendly free rider. A lot of the other examples (outside of the actual Dire Wolves of the Starks) by wildlings and Bran looks/feels different more controlling. In any case it think Arya's style of Warging is the tool that will boost her through the FM ranks to were she can learn the quick face change - the thing she wants as they quite rightly suspect so she can pursue her personal vengeance.

[Bridgeburners]

It's been a while since I read FFC, so correct me if I'm wrong. But from what I read, it seemed like there were lots of hints that Arya was generally running around with Nymeria and slaughtering innocent townsfolk. People (septon Meribald, I forget who else) were talking about how there was a big wolf pack, all following an exceptionally big wolf (or direwolf), and they were being more bold than would naturally be expected, running around and killing villagers. And Arya kept having her wolf dreams, didn't she?

[conon394]

Well she has clearly been dreaming into her wolf for a while and her needs have driven the actions of her wolf - Finding her mother and killing off bloody mummer pursuit. The fact she does not know what is happening suggests the feedback loop works both ways I think both her meeting with the witch and the other FM "You have the eyes of wolf and taste for blood" show that. It is clear she enjoys the kills of her wolf but its not clear she is fully directing them.

In reality I don't Arya has a good handle on what is happening until she uses the cat. And even then she seems an odd Warg sort of welcomed free rider not imposing control.

[Blindsie]

Isn't there that old dog that Sansa bonded with in the Vale, or am I imagining things?

[Tenshi]

Theres a batshit crazy Targ running around Essos with 3 dragons, so we know GRRM isn't against things that may be far too powerful. Warging won't be too powerful, though I can totally see Arya complementing her FM skills with warging.

Find a good venomous spider in the Red Keep, and a girl shall do the rest ;).

...Could she warg germs? Sending Cersei a bloody flux would be fun.

[messem]

Bran actually had to try a few times in order to use the crows properly and he's the most powerful of the Stark kids.

Is this actually confirmed? The way I see it it is the younger the more powerful. You know like, you can't teach an old wolf new tricks. This would also mean we see Rickon Sixhundredskins with an animal army coming back from Skagos. :cool4:

[FittleLinger]

Is this actually confirmed? The way I see it it is the younger the more powerful. You know like, you can't teach an old wolf new tricks. This would also mean we see Rickon Sixhundredskins with an animal army coming back from Skagos. :cool4:

I think Bran's incident and "destiny" are more important here, not really his age.

[Waylin Stark]

Arya has warged a lot.

As for Sansa, I'm not entirely sure about the bird. I think Sansa's warging abilities are very weak or non existent because she lost Lady before they could connect, and probably because she's more of a Tully than a Stark, even when compared to Bran, Rickon or Robb.

[conon394]

This would also mean we see Rickon Sixhundredskins with an animal army coming back from Skagos

I don't think so but in a nut shell there is the issue so far the evidence makes it hard to judge.

Bran clearly has the most if you will Ivy League education, becoming a tree and being with Jojan before hand and now with the CoF.

Then we have the Wildlings we have met and Jon who has his understanding from them - less well rounded and very much a limited control set.

Arya on careful read is so far different I don't think you could call her Arya Two skins because her interaction seems so far be almost voluntary by the animal not like she is mastering either her Wolf or the cat - perhaps not voluntary but maybe so far more subtle

For RIkon it seems likely at best he could follow the Wildling path and thus at best be master of only a handful - considering his age.

[Mladen]

Arya has warged a lot.

As for Sansa, I'm not entirely sure about the bird. I think Sansa's warging abilities are very weak or non existent because she lost Lady before they could connect, and probably because she's more of a Tully than a Stark, even when compared to Bran, Rickon or Robb.

According to GRRM, you know the guy that actually wrote the book, and something I said for 10 000th time, all of them, including Sansa are wargs. Also, Sansa shows throughout the books that she is far more like Starks than Tullys. One can even argue that Arya`s philosophy is even closer to Tullys, than Sansa`s. As for that, no one who have read the books can deny hos much in common Sansa and her father have. Also, we have strong foreshadowing regarding Sansa`s warging abilities and connection between her and birds. And, if Bran can warg Hodor, Arya cats, why can`t Sansa warg birds?

[ARYa_Nym]

Those are just house words which at the end of the day mean nothing. The Tyrells actually uphold the family and duty part far more than the Tullys do.

Let's see Family-Tyrells stick together. The Tullys meanwhile have a father who forces his child to have an abortion, sisters who aren't close at all and don't have a good relationship, a woman who abandons her family in their time of need, and let's not forget that she also tried to kill one of her family members. We have a man who estranged himself from his brother because he did not do his duty.

Arya values family. Ned actually told her to value the pack. I imagine a wolf would be more family oriented than a trout would. Ned also has repeated forgone his honor for his family.

Duty-The Tyrells do what they're told to do. Meanwhile you have the Blackfish who refused.

I've gone over this before but if you look up the definition of duty you will see that this does not apply to Arya.

Honor-It's funny because this is actually a defining trait for Ned Stark

.

Is this actually confirmed? The way I see it it is the younger the more powerful. You know like, you can't teach an old wolf new tricks. This would also mean we see Rickon Sixhundredskins with an animal army coming back from Skagos. :cool4:

It's because Bran is a greenseer. The rest of them aren't. BR waited for him specifically.

It's been a while since I read FFC, so correct me if I'm wrong. But from what I read, it seemed like there were lots of hints that Arya was generally running around with Nymeria and slaughtering innocent townsfolk. People (septon Meribald, I forget who else) were talking about how there was a big wolf pack, all following an exceptionally big wolf (or direwolf), and they were being more bold than would naturally be expected, running around and killing villagers. And Arya kept having her wolf dreams, didn't she?

She does but Nymeria is mostly in control. The bond influences the warg so Arya naturally becomes more like Nymeria. She's a bloodthirsty killer.

[jamal99]

It's because Bran is a greenseer. The rest of them aren't. BR waited for him specifically.

I think that maybe RIckon is a greenseer too. He had greendreams and Shaggy does have green eyes also, he's just too young..