[Book Spoilers] The Ripple Effect

[JuiceTonk]

• ASIDE: What this does for Brienne is very unknown. I assumed much of her story from AFFC would be cut or at least reshaped to give relevance to the main stories (given readers basically watched her wander, looking for Sansa where we knew Sansa would not be).
  

This is the one part where I really wouldn't mind if the show writers decided to deviate heavily from the books. As long as it doesn't interfere with other character's storylines too much, and as long as it ends with Brienne bumping into the BWB, it could be made much more interesting and give more substance to the story than just aimlessly wandering through the wilderness.

Those first few chapters of Brienne's in AFFC were so frustrating to read for that very reason of her looking nowhere close to where Sansa was, and it really wasn't until she met Septon Meribald and got all that awesome dialogue (especially his reasoning of why soldiers desert- awesome), that her adventure really got interesting in my opinion.

[WTFSalami]

Those Brienne chapters could have REALLY benefitted from us not knowing where Sansa was. I feel like that reveal would have been best held off until AFFC, and only after the first couple of Brienne chapters.

[7V3N]

Why do people keep saying that Loras is going to accuse Brienne of Renly's murder and try to fight her?

Does nobody remember when he specifically said that he doesn't think Brienne did it? How stupid would that be of the writers to forget that?

Regarding Loras and Brienne--

Didn't Loras say in a conversation with Margaery that he didn't believe it was Brienne? My memory of season 2 is fuzzy because, to be honest, much of it I wanted to forget. But after Renly's death, still outside of Storm's End, I think he says something like that to Marg.

Yes - Loras stated to Marg that he did not believe Brienne had anything to do with it. (I couldn't remember if that had happened but it was confirmed.)

:) But the writers would not surprise me to do this. Their inattention to detail has been a bit shameful. Sam outwalked ahorse Jon, Tywin messed up when talking about the dragon skulls, Littlefinger can teleport, etc.

[six]

My best guess, as of right now, is that the events will largely play out the same way they do in the book. We will be re-introduced to Dontos, he will offer to help Sansa escape the capitol, and she will agree. Purple Wedding happens the same as it does in the book, in the chaos Sansa slips out and then we get the Littlefinger reveal, yadda yadda.

The part that I believe will be changed, is that Jaime asks Brienne to accompany him through the Riverlands as he negotiates the surrenders of the last remaining Stark loyalists, which will give her an opportunity to ask of Sansa's whereabouts. Jaime is going to need a sparring partner, and with the actor that plays Ser Ilyn Payne sadly inflicted with terminal cancer, Brienne is the next best option. We get more Jaime/Brienne, Brienne gets to look for Sansa, and they can both come across The Brotherhood together, which will give Lady Stoneheart a justifiable reason to think that both of them broke their vows to her.

I'm not necessarily against this, and it would make sense because while Brienne's journey gave us insight on the impact of the war and on Brienne as a character, much as I love those chapters in the books I think it would be hard to translate on screen. Also Jaime and Brienne are reunited at some point, so why even separate them at all. My issue with it is that Brienne, who is one of my top 5 favourites in the books, is very much her own character in the books and not just a prop to Jaime, the way Bronn is to Tyrion. So I'd be down with it, as long as she's not treated as a Bronn and actually gets character development.

IN REGARDS TO JAIME AND BRIENNE...

I actually think it will play out very close to how it does in the books.

-Jaime/Brienne arrive and learn about the deaths of Robb and Catelyn, whereas in the books they heard about it at an inn during their travel.

-Loras sees Brienne, attempts to kill her for the "murder of Renly", Jaime stops him, Loras demands that she be arrested, and Jaime sees that she is.

Thus, Brienne likely in prison until the PW has happened and can't do anything about Sansa until Joffrey is dead and Sansa is gone.

In the meantime, we'll likely get some new interesting and character developing different scenes with Jaime, Cersei, Tyrion, Tywin, and Loras. This will likely start to show Jaime's changing feelings towards Cersei, his return to command of the Kingsguard, and his appointment of Loras to the Kingsguard (which he will do to save Cersei from the marriage).

We will have to wait and see what Jaime may or may not do in regards to trying to free Sansa himself in the meantime, but I expect the PW to happen in the early to middle of the season (which gives enough time to introduce Mace Tyrell and Oberyn Martell). Sansa may not trust Jaime or may decide she has nowhere left to go. I expect Margaery will play some part in this as well. Regardless, Jaime may (perhaps with Margaery's help) come up with an additional plan to try and free Sansa himself but by the time he is able to execute it, she will have gone after the wedding. Thus, he will release Brienne (with Loras realizing it was Stannis after questioning her) and send her off to find Sansa.

Thus, it will likely still be very accurate to the book in the grand scheme of things.

Loras does not accuse Brienne of anything, it was in season 2 where he says he doesn't believe she did it and it was Stannis. It wont' happen. If Brienne was to be arrested it would have to be for different reasons. Also, I hope they don't do it like you suggest although it wouldn't surprise me if they did. I don't want Margaery involved in this, it's not her story.

Either way it pans out, we will get to see more Westeros Wormhole travelling with Yara apparently sailing to the Dreadfort and then likely sailing back to Deepwood Motte in season 5.

I really don't like what they've been doing lately, and that's neglecting the good story to make up storylines and scenes to give actors more screen time. So many good story developments or character developments could have been used instead of pointless scenes just to give Tyrion, Theon, Littlefinger, Margaery, Melisandre, Cersei etc more time on screen.

This. It's blatantly obvious at this point that D&D have their favourites and only they count, regardless of the fact that their favourites' repeated screen time is redundant and adds nothing to the story.

Why do people keep saying that Loras is going to accuse Brienne of Renly's murder and try to fight her?

Does nobody remember when he specifically said that he doesn't think Brienne did it? How stupid would that be of the writers to forget that?

Apparently not, we should make a public announcement so we can get it out of the way! :lol:

[Little and Less]

My guess on the KL drama will largely be influenced by King Joff. We already saw Tywin vs. Joff in a couple of episodes and Joff can be a loose canon when it comes to getting what he wants. I think D&D will show us more of this plus a few Jaime vs. Joff scenes as well.

I could see him giving his approval of Loras joining the KG just to spite Tywin.

I could see him continually degrading Tyrion and harrassing Sansa, to the point that when the PW happens and it will be a who killed King Joff? moment - everyone is a suspect.

I'm not a Jaime fan, but I could see how Joff's behaviour will influence Jaime's actions to protect Sansa and Tyrion.

[Little and Less]

I keep feeling like Brienne is to Jaime what Davos is to Stannis. That may be what makes Jaime keep his promise to Cat (even if it was under duress). Plus we may still get the "I only protect maidens" line from Jaime in S4.

[Myrddin]

Maybe Joff will piss everyone off so when he is poisoned, everyone cheers instead.

Ok, realistic but makes for boring television....

[silentwanderer]

Their roles demanded it. Jaime had to serve as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, Brienne had to find Sansa.

And they ended up looking like a modern day couple, going to the same grocery store, forgetting the same items and getting twice of every thing they bought.

It was cute on the books, but it would not cut in on the show IMO.

... Brienne's journey gave us insight on the impact of the war and on Brienne as a character, much as I love those chapters in the books I think it would be hard to translate on screen. Also Jaime and Brienne are reunited at some point, so why even separate them at all...

I think the alone time made sense for Brienne on the books because the character needed time to process her feelings. Jaime needed time to miss her too.

But they came back to King's Landing way too early for it to be necessary. They can process all they want while they are still together, plan a course of action to get Arya back and even one to go after Sansa when the time comes.

[Zorpack]

How will they manage to pull off Sansa's involvement with the red wedding, get her out of kings landing, etc. etc.. WHILE Jamie and Brienne are in the capitol already? I cannot even wrap my brain around it. There is so much of Sansa's timeline left out!!!

[1234567]

How will they manage to pull off Sansa's involvement with the red wedding, get her out of kings landing, etc. etc.. WHILE Jamie and Brienne are in the capitol already? I cannot even wrap my brain around it. There is so much of Sansa's timeline left out!!!

I don't know if it will be important, but in the books, Jaime and Brienne would not be able to recognise Sansa if she was in the same room as them (Jaime maybe, but unlikely). This will no longer be the case in the show.

Also they have removed most of Sansa's story and characterization since season 2.

[Zorpack]

I don't know if it will be important, but in the books, Jaime and Brienne would not be able to recognise Sansa if she was in the same room as them (Jaime maybe, but unlikely). This will no longer be the case in the show.

Also they have removed most of Sansa's story and characterization since season 2.

It sucks because Sansa has such an interesting and ever evolving story line! It makes me so sad. Im sure they wouldn't be able to recognize her but being as though they are all in the capitol she will most definitely be announced by her title one way or another and people in the court definitely know who she is. It would be sooo likely for Brienne or Jamie to over hear someone talking of Sansa in a court yard or some shit.

[JoramunsKazoo]

Some additional comments on two of your items, with potential outcomes...

1) Yara vs. Bolton -- Yara Greyjoy is now planning to attack the Boltons from the East, and rescue her brother Theon (Reek).

One of the most interesting illogical twists of the season. Not that she desires to save her brother, but how long that passage will take by sea. In any case, I think you may be on to something, whereas she could eventually rescue Reek from the Dreadfort and attempt to return home. She would likely be captured by Stannis, which poses interesting interactions between Jon and Theon if he takes them to the Wall. I think he would keep them in pocket though, for his eventual march south, where Theon/Reek could prove valuable for taking Winterfell and restore their proximity to that of the book.

6*) Jaime's early arrival at King's Landing -- Jaime Lannister arrives at King's Landing. His oath was forced upon him at sword-point by Catelyn Tully Stark. When released, Jaime was to be taken by Brienne of Tarth to King's Landing, where he would then return the Stark girls (Arya and Sansa) to the Starks. Basically, an exchange of hostages. Sansa, though married to Tyrion Lannister, is in the city still held by the Lannisters.

This opens a whole bunch of strange conversations between him, Tyrion, and Sansa. I guess there's no way for him to fulfill his oath at this point, except perhaps to guaruntee her safety, which Tyrion seems certain to do as well. The TV writing could just leave it at that, and when Littlefinger wisks her away, it renews his oath to seek her well being.

Also, this leads you to expect Jaime to be at the wedding and see his son die. No idea how they'll play this out, but you'd think it would evoke different emotions than when he simply came back to a corpse. Maybe Jaime will attempt to seduce Cersei at the wedding and get denied/slapped, which causes him to leave early and never witness. This allows him to be a doubter on Tyrions guilt and have the dungeon release.

[silentwanderer]

How will they manage to pull off Sansa's involvement with the red wedding, get her out of kings landing, etc. etc.. WHILE Jamie and Brienne are in the capitol already? I cannot even wrap my brain around it. There is so much of Sansa's timeline left out!!!

Better yet: How would any of the girls be of any import now that Rickon is on his way to the Umbers?

The whole plot was based on the fact there's no male heir to Winterfell: Its why Ramsay was married to "Arya" and its why Tywin married Tyrion to Sansa.

But now there IS a male heir and Rickon's claim is more important than any of his sisters's husbands.

On the show, Rickon is both the key to the north and the heir of Winterfell.

[JoramunsKazoo]

Better yet: How would any of the girls be of any import now that Rickon is on his way to the Umbers?

The whole plot was based on the fact there's no male heir to Winterfell: Its why Ramsay was married to "Arya" and its why Tywin married Tyrion to Sansa.

But now there IS a male heir and Rickon's claim is more important than any of his sisters's husbands.

On the show, Rickon is both the key to the north and the heir of Winterfell.

Assuming Rickon makes it to the Last Hearth, I think he will be held in pocket for the time being. It would be too dangerous to play their card with the Boltons back in town, however when Stannis-plow clears a path to Winterfell...

[7V3N]

Better yet: How would any of the girls be of any import now that Rickon is on his way to the Umbers?

The whole plot was based on the fact there's no male heir to Winterfell: Its why Ramsay was married to "Arya" and its why Tywin married Tyrion to Sansa.

But now there IS a male heir and Rickon's claim is more important than any of his sisters's husbands.

On the show, Rickon is both the key to the north and the heir of Winterfell.

Rickon won't make it there, I believe. House Umber splits between Stannis and Bolton, so I think, given the suspect loyalties of the Northmen, Osha will retreat to Skagos, sort of in hiding. Then we will still get this awesome idea (hopefully a plot) that Davos goes to Skagos to find Rickon.

[Ajotanelsona]

Has anyone mentioned the possibility that Brienne might run into/ally with Gendry on her journeys? Maybe he gets off course and ends up in Duskendale to join Brienne. This would make more sense in my opinion, as Gendry has been characterized much more than Pod thus far. Oh, and the show-continuity would be better maintained assuming Tyrion's escape will probably occur near the end of the season. Lastly, it ultimately ties into his return to the brotherhood. Hmmm...

[gmk]

Better yet: How would any of the girls be of any import now that Rickon is on his way to the Umbers?

But Jamie didn't send Brienne out after the girls because of their claim to Winterfell. He did it out of a sense of honor to Brienne and his vow to Catelyn.

[ladyinblack]

Also, Gendry...he knows he's a Baratheon, unlike in the books, he's been betrayed by the BWB, unlike in the books, he's met Mel and Stannis, unlike in the books and now is rowing toward King's Landing.

So, this plotline could also really go anywhere.

where we find out that his mother is Cersei. His mother had yellow hair and was a "tavern wench"-her favorite disguise to meet Jaime just throwing that out there. She did not want a son of Roberts to be an heir to the IT better send Shireen to teach him to read

[ladyinblack]

Oh & he can save or marry Sansa while he's there there is no text to support any of this just having fun

[Ajotanelsona]

where we find out that his mother is Cersei. His mother had yellow hair and was a "tavern wench"-her favorite disguise to meet Jaime just throwing that out there. She did not want a son of Roberts to be an heir to the IT better send Shireen to teach him to read

Yup, queens can hide that sort of thing pretty easily.