Ser Eric Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Because she may start to believe he's Azor Ahai. Have you forgotten how when she tries to see visions of Azor Ahai she only sees snow. And she still thinks Stannis is AA which says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaibaman Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 And she still thinks Stannis is AA which says it all. Yeah for now but she might eventually change her mind when she realizes there's really nothing special about Stannis. Who knows maybe she gets another vision seeing snow and decides to revive Jon to create a forced prophecy like she did with Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Yeah for now but she might eventually change her mind when she realizes there's really nothing special about Stannis. Who knows maybe she gets another vision seeing snow and decides to revive Jon to create a forced prophecy like she did with Stannis. That may or may not happen but Jon would be long gone with Ghost either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonsmurf Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I hope he will. I don't believe in all this warging-into-ghost theories though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBear5 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 OK, seen bits and pieces of this along the thread, but I'm going to go a little tinfoil here and tie a bunch of things together in a (somewhat far fetched) knot. Also credit to a lot of other posts for this theory coming together... it's something I never would've guessed at without these boards. I really like the idea that Jon will warg into Ghost, and Mel will botch a resurrection attempt on his body (probably involving the burning of Shireen Baratheon) that will allow something much worse (Bloodraven? the Great Other?) to occupy Jon Snow's body and help bring about the destruction of the Night's Watch and the White Walkers entrance to Westeros. I think there's a fair amount of groundwork laid for it too. The resurrection clearly destroys a person's memories and humanity, and I don't think there's any reason to bring Jon back if he doesn't have those. I don't like the "non fatal wounds" idea either, because it makes the fifth book's ending seem cheap once the series is finished. Between the ice cells at the Wall and the fact that dead bodies don't seem to be staying dead anyway, I think Jon's wounds will drive him from his body, and it will be possessed by another. So how does this really preserve Jon Snow? I think Bran's possession's of Hodor and Varamyr's attempts to possess a wildling woman showed that a human is not easy to warg. If zombie Jon is leading a battle against a human army and suddenly finds himself attacked by Jon's consciousness trying to win his body back, it could lead to a moment that at the very least turns around a battle, if not a war. So.... no to resurrection I guess? But no way Jon's story is over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KINGpanther Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 This is awesome! My feeling is Jon will become a Coldhands Wight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASOIAF_Ali Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I think his resurrection is definitely a possibility, although the turning from man to wolf back to man might refer to his warging abilities possibly? I actually happen to believe that he won't be resurrected but just that he won't die, he'll just be wounded. Anyway, he'll definitely be back in some form, I should imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensenmenn Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 The varamir prologue was a reference to bran not Jon and Jon isn't going to be researched by Mel or Val's magic like cat and berick. Jon's going to be reborn by his own magic as Aemon targaryen Azor ahai the dragon reborn. His has hair will tern white his eyes will tern deep violet almost black all his scars and injures will heal and he will be whole again. While this proses occurs he will have a vision which will reveal the truth about his pairints and who he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 We don't agree that Jon is dead or will be dead in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crippledtank Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Well he'd need to die first.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KINGpanther Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 If Jon somehow survives the stabbing then that is some pretty thick plot armor he has on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf's Bane Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Yes, but he could come back like Catelyn. Missing memories. He could also come back as a white walker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Howland Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 If I recall correctly, the leaked letter that GRRM sent to publishers describing the story before he started writing the books called Jon one of the 5 main characters (I think it was Arya, Sansa, Jon, Tyrion, and Dany). So unless GRRM decided to make wholesale changes to his original story outline, which is certainly possible, Jon should survive at least until the last book. Also, there's been so much effort put into creating, and hiding, Jon's back story that it would just be bad writing to cut him out of the story at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taenqyrhae Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I am not certain he will be. If his life ended at the end of the 5th book, it wouldn't be like his story until then was pointless. He accomplished a lot in his short life, and his death will be a major turing point in the story. He doesn't have to come back and if he did, it would be pretty cliche. We've only had one major POV character die since Ned, and she came back. Do you really think he would kill off another major POV character and then have them come back too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taenqyrhae Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Here's what I think is going to happen - Jon is dead. He's not coming back as Jon. Ghost is going to start hanging out with Melisandre now. Because of the Varamyr prologue, there will of course be speculation that Jon is living a second life inside Ghost, but whether this is true will be kept a mystery. There may even be some conflict in the story regarding that, as Mel may claim to be in contact with the spirit of Jon through Ghost, but people may have reason to doubt that - Mel may say that Jon wants people to do something that others think is out of character for Jon, and the veracity of her claim will change as we find out more about the consequences of said actions - for instance, Mel may say Jon told her that somebody needs to be sacrificed, and nobody believes it because Jon would never do that - but then when the sacrifice is performed, it becomes obvious that this was the correct course of action, so maybe Jon did want it - or maybe Mel just said Jon wanted it. The only other alternative I see as likely, considering the Catelyn resurrection, is that Jon comes back as a wight or maybe is even Otherized. If he comes back in any form that is not totally alien and inimical to his original form, nobody will believe it when GRRM kills off major POV characters anymore - they'll say he did it once for real to get people's attention, in the first book, but has since fallen in love with his characters and all the remaining Starks will survive to the end of the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KINGpanther Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Catelyn Stark is dead. She's Lady Stoneheart now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Laura Palmer is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensenmenn Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Laura Palmer is dead. Who?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bemused Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 If Jon somehow survives the stabbing then that is some pretty thick plot armor he has on. Not plot armour.. just the mail shirt that was on his workbench back in AFfC. Is Jon losing consciousness completely at the end of his chapter, or about to enter the same unaware, altered consciousness of battle frenzy that he displayed against Iron Emmet ? We've already seen both those things (among other clues). Groundwork has been laid. From what we've been shown, it's actually a more viable option than somehow returning out of Ghost after he's been killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taenqyrhae Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Catelyn Stark is dead. She's Lady Stoneheart now. Catelyn Stark is alive, but brain damaged. It's not like she arose as a brain eating zombie that is killing indiscriminately. She has intelligence, she is using her ties to the Riverlands to assemble followers to get revenge, and she is motivated by love for her family. I don't get people saying she's not Catelyn anymore - if Catelyn's throat was not cut, and the Frey's just threw her in the river still alive, and she washed up on the shore, alive but traumatized, it would not be out of character at all for her to do the exact same things she's done as "Lady Stoneheart". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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