Pinkie Baelish Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 People of Colour and "colored people" is not the same thing at all. Look it up before spouting nonsense.Well, in his defence, POC appears to be an American term, and he may not be familiar with the difference between the two terms if he's not American. I know I wasn't, until I looked it up just now. Let's not get confrontational here. I say we continue to debate what "olive skinned" actually means until Martin writes TWOW :agree:I predict that this will be the "Purple Wedding in season 3" argument of season 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Luke. Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I predict that this will be the "Purple Wedding in season 3" argument of season 4.Oh no! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose Seal Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Well, in his defence, POC appears to be an American term, and he may not be familiar with the difference between the two terms if he's not American. I know I wasn't, until I looked it up just now. Let's not get confrontational here.Which is why I said "look it up", which s/he should, before "spouting nonsense" which s/he did.I'm not being disrespectful here: if we can't use the proper terms because people are going to misconstrue them out of ignorance, then this discussion isn't going anywhere really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 That's not really a reasoning. What you personally feel is irrelevant. The fact is, GRRM has said that Martells are modelled after Spanish Moors, who are blackThe Moorish invasion was predominantly carried out by Berbers and Arabs, and they probably looked quite a lot like this. Seven hundred years later, after a great deal of intermarriage with Spaniards, Moors who fled back to Morocco as the Reconquista came to a close settled in coastal Morocco, and to this day the Moroccan population of northwest Africa is said to be "genetically closer to Iberians than to West Africans and Middle Easterners". There were black Moors, of course, but it seems clear they were and are a minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyful Union Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 PoC is a very misleading acronym. Surely there's something better out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 PoC is a very misleading acronym. Surely there's something better out there?It’s just the latest version of trendy rebranding out of obsequious political correctness. Ignore it. Whether you call them black or nonwhite or colored or mixed-race, it doesn’t matter, but at least that way you won’t be forever annoying people with offensively trendy PC jargon the way person of color does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 That's not really a reasoning. What you personally feel is irrelevant. The fact is, GRRM has said that Martells are modelled after Spanish Moors, who are black, therefore it's whitewashing, it's the definition.What are you even talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerStinger Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 The Moorish invasion was predominantly carried out by Berbers and Arabs, and they probably looked quite a lot like this. Seven hundred years later, after a great deal of intermarriage with Spaniards, Moors who fled back to Morocco as the Reconquista came to a close settled in coastal Morocco, and to this day the Moroccan population of northwest Africa is said to be "genetically closer to Iberians than to West Africans and Middle Easterners". There were black Moors, of course, but it seems clear they were and are a minority.All right, I accept that I was wrong. I did some research and I saw I made a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abaddon Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 This thread is going downhill fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolantero Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 The actor looks fine to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireandbl00d Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 Yeah I meant this thread to be about the actor's ability and it's fair enough to state whether or not he looks like you imagined Oberyn to be, but let's just try and steer it back to his acting credentials... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose Seal Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Was that a joke or?...ETA: I really hope that was a joke. Not that it makes it any better, AT ALL.Heavy sarcasm, obviously.Words matter. Words have a history and baggage and carry meaning. You can't just write everything off as "obsequious political correctness " because you wish you could use certain words without fear of being called out.In discussions such as this, and especially given the context here, it is important, considerate and actually, essential, to use terms that are acceptable, lest we all spout racist colloquialisms because, hey, if we can't, it's all PC-freedom of speech-infringing bullshit right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Heavy sarcasm, obviously.Words matter. Words have a history and baggage and carry meaning. You can't just write everything off as "obsequious political correctness " because you wish you could use certain words without fear of being called out.In discussions such as this, and especially given the context here, it is important, considerate and actually, essential, to use terms that are acceptable, lest we all spout racist colloquialisms because, hey, if we can't, it's all PC-freedom of speech-infringing bullshit right?Yes, I agree with you. Sorry, I'm not good at detecting sarcasm on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerStinger Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Yes, I agree with you. Sorry, I'm not good at detecting sarcasm on the internet.That's not your problem. It's Poe's Law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Monkey Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Yeah I meant this thread to be about the actor's ability and it's fair enough to state whether or not he looks like you imagined Oberyn to be, but let's just try and steer it back to his acting credentials...Pretty hard to do seeing as no one seems to have seen him act. Aren't there any videos out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServantOnIce Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 The Moorish invasion was predominantly carried out by Berbers and Arabs, and they probably looked quite a lot like this. Seven hundred years later, after a great deal of intermarriage with Spaniards, Moors who fled back to Morocco as the Reconquista came to a close settled in coastal Morocco, and to this day the Moroccan population of northwest Africa is said to be "genetically closer to Iberians than to West Africans and Middle Easterners". There were black Moors, of course, but it seems clear they were and are a minority.You are correct. I liked it better when the ancients called us Sub Saharan Africans, "Ethiopians" meaning, "Sun Burnt." I think they called the few of us who were Sub Saharan, "Moors" because they had no other word for us. GRRM has made a distinction by the term, "Summer Islanders" and Stephen Deas by the "Taitakyei." I never thought so many folks would make a big deal about an Caucasian Actor playing a Caucasian role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I blame the guys that did the casting for Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves.Seeing Morgan Freeman as Robin's Moorish sidekick is no doubt the most exposure that the uninformed have had to what someone from "Moorish Spain" was supposed to look like.Hence the weird preconcieved notions being touted here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danolf Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I remember him playing the deceivingly friendly bad guy type in the Burn Notice movie, but his role was quite small. He wasn't bad, that I can tell.The Moorish invasion was predominantly carried out by Berbers and Arabs, and they probably looked quite a lot like this. Seven hundred years later, after a great deal of intermarriage with Spaniards, Moors who fled back to Morocco as the Reconquista came to a close settled in coastal Morocco, and to this day the Moroccan population of northwest Africa is said to be "genetically closer to Iberians than to West Africans and Middle Easterners". There were black Moors, of course, but it seems clear they were and are a minority.Yeah and lets not forget the Inquisition, apparently they got pretty nasty with those moors who stayed after the Reconquista and converted to christianism later on. As for intermarriage, I've read something about marriage being banned between christians, jews and muslims during the centuries that they coexisted, but who knows. I have the theory that moors and native spaniards didn't look very different to begin with back then. Some people act like southern europeans owe their swarthiness solely to intermingling with darker people in old times, like thousands of years living under the harsh mediterranean climate wasn't a good enough reason for it. It's kind of duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMJ Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I blame the guys that did the casting for Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves.Seeing Morgan Freeman as Robin's Moorish sidekick is no doubt the most exposure that the uninformed have had to what someone from "Moorish Spain" was supposed to look like.Hence the weird preconcieved notions being touted here.I realize your only partly serious, but I think it's more complex than that. There's been a trend in Hollywood and the Arts in general to cast African descent actors in Moorish roles. Think of Othello both on the screen and stage - Lawrence Fishburne, James Earl Jones, Chiwetel Ejiofer have all played that role. And this is the same role that Laurence Olivier and Orson Welles have played.In opera, the Verdi Otello role has been sung many times by black singers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danolf Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I blame the guys that did the casting for Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves.Seeing Morgan Freeman as Robin's Moorish sidekick is no doubt the most exposure that the uninformed have had to what someone from "Moorish Spain" was supposed to look like.Hence the weird preconcieved notions being touted here. I blame this scene as well: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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