Blue Winter Rose - Sansa Stark?

[Roadside Rose]

But if you're basing the connection between Sansa and blue roses solely on Sansa being the most beuatiful of House Stark, you're neglecting the possibility that Arya seems to be growing up a second Lyanna and be actually the more beautiful of the two. Which one will it be, then?

I don't think beauty itself is the key to the blue roses symbolism.

No, I have given another reason too...

I also feel the 'chink in a wall of ice' represents how Sansa was the chink in Winterfell's armor. She was the vulnerability of Ned Stark that unintentionally caused Ned Stark to get beheaded, resulting in the eventual fall of Winterfell.

[Ygrain]

No, I have given another reason too...

I also feel the 'chink in a wall of ice' represents how Sansa was the chink in Winterfell's armor. She was the vulnerability of Ned Stark that unintentionally caused Ned Stark to get beheaded, resulting in the eventual fall of Winterfell.

And what basis do you have for "wall of ice" = Winterfell?

[Roadside Rose]

And what basis do you have for "wall of ice" = Winterfell?

I said wall of ice was symbolic to Winterfell's armor.

[Ygrain]

I said wall of ice was symbolic to Winterfell's armor.

I fail to see the basis though, as you seem to be interpreting this from top down: if Sansa is the blue flower then what is she a chink in? Whereas, if you start from the other way round, there is zero connection between a wall of ice and Winterfell or Starks in general and nothing in it leads to Sansa - who, BTW, presented a chink once but not any more.

[Rhaegarsjoy]

Sansa is a rose but not the 'winter rose', she summer, flowers and puppies. The winter rose survives the harshest winter and that's obviously Arya.

[Inquisitor Glokta]

If there would be some connection of the blue rose with a currently alive Stark girl, it would be Arya, who is often compared to Lyanna and not Sansa.

[ARYa_Nym]

It's Lyanna. I think the filling the air with sweetness is positive but in general a winter rose is plucked and dies.

I don't believe the Bael story is even true. It's just a reference point for R+L=J.

Arya has more foreshadowing to meet Dany than Sansa does and of the two will likely meet her first. It's possible that encountering Arya may lead her to Jon in the future but who knows. The vision is about Jon though.

[Tommen]

At the time, Ygritte had not yet taken Jon Snow's virginity. He was still the most beautiful "maiden" from Winterfell ;)

[Roadside Rose]

At the time, Ygritte had not yet taken Jon Snow's virginity. He was still the most beautiful "maiden" from Winterfell ;)

:P

He was a pretty 'maiden' for sure, until Ygritte 'de-flowered' him.

[Mladen]

Sansa is a rose but not the 'winter rose', she summer, flowers and puppies. The winter rose survives the harshest winter and that's obviously Arya.

And what is Joffrey's torment and everyday beatings? She survived harsh winter and she is a winter rose, given all we know about Sansa.

For me, blue rose is direct reference to Jon in Dany's HOTU vision, and I don't see it otherwise.

[ARYa_Nym]

I think a winter rose is more likely to die in winter since it's possible that Lyanna died during winter. If you think about it winter is her season. It's when she started to really bloom. Once it's over she withers and dies.

[Northbound]

, I don't understand why so many people assume that Sansa and Dany will be antagonistic toward each other if and when they finally interact.

Oh...I don't know. Maybe it has something to do, with the whole "Usurpers Dog's" stuff. Until Dany, changes her mind about the members of certain Houses in the Seven Kingdoms; she has to be considered a threat.

[Mladen]

I think a winter rose is more likely to die in winter since it's possible that Lyanna died during winter. If you think about it winter is her season. It's when she started to really bloom. Once it's over she withers and dies.

281 was the year of False spring, but do we know when exactly that winter end?

[ARYa_Nym]

We don't know with certainty but it's very possible.

In context to Ned's lone wolf dies during the winter speech he was warning Arya about Brandon and Lyanna's behavior. They played summer games according to him and he said that during winter a pack needs to be together.

Either way the story is not about survival for the Stark woman in question. The child lives (Jon, Bael's son) but they do not in the end.

[moon on the willow]

So far, the connection between Blue Roses and Stark girls has followed a certain routine: songs, abducting, reproducing a son, dying before her day, and the son inherit the throne. I just fail to see the possibility that Arya's storyline follows such a pattern, but I can see Sansa does it.

PS: I always think Sansa's life has more in common with her Aunt Lyanna: Lyanna is a girl taken away from her betrothed and indirectly causing a war ending the Targaryen Dynasty; Sansa is a girl indirectly causing a war ending the Baratheon Dynasty and taken away from her betrothed. Arya is said to have Lyanna's looks and temper, but so far the fact "Arya is like Lyanna" has absolutely nothing to do with her story!

[Roadside Rose]

So far, the connection between Blue Roses and Stark girls has followed a certain routine: songs, abducting, reproducing a son, dying before her day, and the son inherit the throne. I just fail to see the possibility that Arya's storyline follows such a pattern, but I can see Sansa does it.

PS: I always think Sansa's life has more in common with her Aunt Lyanna: Lyanna is a girl taken away from her betrothed and indirectly causing a war ending the Targaryen Dynasty; Sansa is a girl indirectly causing a war ending the Baratheon Dynasty and taken away from her betrothed. Arya is said to have Lyanna's looks and temper, but so far the fact "Arya is like Lyanna" has absolutely nothing to do with her story!

:agree:

[Ygrain]

So far, the connection between Blue Roses and Stark girls has followed a certain routine: songs, abducting, reproducing a son, dying before her day, and the son inherit the throne. I just fail to see the possibility that Arya's storyline follows such a pattern, but I can see Sansa does it.

PS: I always think Sansa's life has more in common with her Aunt Lyanna: Lyanna is a girl taken away from her betrothed and indirectly causing a war ending the Targaryen Dynasty; Sansa is a girl indirectly causing a war ending the Baratheon Dynasty and taken away from her betrothed. Arya is said to have Lyanna's looks and temper, but so far the fact "Arya is like Lyanna" has absolutely nothing to do with her story!

And if she is a girl running away from her betrothed?

[Rhaegarsjoy]

So far, the connection between Blue Roses and Stark girls has followed a certain routine: songs, abducting, reproducing a son, dying before her day, and the son inherit the throne. I just fail to see the possibility that Arya's storyline follows such a pattern, but I can see Sansa does it.

PS: I always think Sansa's life has more in common with her Aunt Lyanna: Lyanna is a girl taken away from her betrothed and indirectly causing a war ending the Targaryen Dynasty; Sansa is a girl indirectly causing a war ending the Baratheon Dynasty and taken away from her betrothed. Arya is said to have Lyanna's looks and temper, but so far the fact "Arya is like Lyanna" has absolutely nothing to do with her story!

Why do ppl compare sansa to everyone she's not like to make her sound cooler? She's more ned, she's like Lyanna, the only thing she resembles is a parrot. It's more like,y Lyanna was running in the opposite direction of her betrothed than taken away because she realises Robert was a douche unlike sansa.

[Newstar]

The "Which Stark sister resembles Lyanna more" competition has to have the worst prize ever, since the "winner" is presumably more likely to share Lyanna's fate--"dead before her time"--and I wouldn't wish that on either of them.

Even though Arya is explicitly linked to Lyanna a few times in the story, it seems like Lyanna actually embodies the worst tendencies of the Stark sisters in AGOT (assuming she ran away with Rhaegar and wasn't abducted): Arya's impulsiveness and wilful tendencies and Sansa's romanticism (could you imagine Arya weeping over some dude's harp playing?) and tendency to make extremely crappy decisions for love. At least Arya and Sansa had the opportunity to grow out of their defects. AFFC Sansa's not going to go running off with some cute boy who makes cow eyes at her with no thought as to the consequences. ADWD Arya's learned self-control and self-discipline. Lyanna never got the chance to do so.

So far, the connection between Blue Roses and Stark girls has followed a certain routine: songs, abducting, reproducing a son, dying before her day, and the son inherit the throne. I just fail to see the possibility that Arya's storyline follows such a pattern, but I can see Sansa does it.

I see Sansa as a far likelier candidate for being abducted, bearing her abductor's rape (?) baby, and falling in love with her abductor than Arya, for a number of reasons, if we assume that the "abductor" in this scenario is Petyr Baelish and the "abduction" has already taken place. That Bael/Baelish connection could be a coincidence, but knowing this series...

It occurs to me while writing this that theoretically, the Robert/Rhaegar/Lyanna situation could replay itself if Sandor showed up in the Vale to rescue Sansa from her betrothal to Harry the Heir. It would seem to defeat the purpose of Sansa's political training if after everything she'd learned to date, she rejected a politically advantageous match for love, but it might fit--if GRRM could contrive a plausible reason for Sandor to roll into the Vale--and she certainly seems pretty sour on political marriages whatever her training might be. (I know I said she's not going to run off with some random cute boy who makes cow eyes at her, but a Sandor whom she's fantasized about, etc. etc.? Maybe.) Her "father" in this scenario would be Petyr Baelish. The outcome would still be the same--her abductor dying, Sansa bearing his bastard child, Sansa dying (in childbirth, maybe)--but the players would be different.

[greensleeves]

Why do ppl compare sansa to everyone she's not like to make her sound cooler?

Correction: people are made cooler by being compared to Sansa... not the other way around.